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SashasMum
17:43:57 Tue
May 30 2006

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Kill or Cure!!!

I am very excited at the moment ............. I have been given the opportunity to sort out Sasha's distrust for other dogs and turn her into the perfectly placid and harmless soft lump that I know she is and stop her trying to kill any dog that so much as growls at her!!

The RAF Police Dog section here have just started classes (which is great because they are just over the road!) I would like to take her to something like that, just to get her used to being around other dogs etc, but am worried that the outcome would be something more like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre!!

Anyway, I spoke to the Dog Section today and they are going to let me bring Sasha up, one-on-one, and we will then take her and their German Shepards out for a walk and encourage the "behaviour". At least I will be safe in the knowledge that if Sasha trys to eat their dog (a) they aren't worried and (b) they can control their dogs anyway.

Fingers crossed that I will soon be able to walk Sasha with my friends' dogs etc and even be able to open my doors to the odd foster dog that needs help!

She is either going to learn her lessen or get eaten trying!!:shocked:

  
gingerboy
20:15:27 Tue
May 30 2006

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Re: Kill or Cure!!!

Great news Karen

Any chance they can sort Molly out??

Paul

  
Jakes_mum
20:28:30 Tue
May 30 2006

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Re: Kill or Cure!!!

Can i send Heskey along too??????

Liz

  
SashasMum
20:52:40 Tue
May 30 2006

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Well Sasha will be his first boxer experience in the training field!!! Let's hope she is not his last!!!

Believe me, when I find the secrets of his success - I will share them all with you lot ............... free of charge!!

I have an image of that RAF police dog chap in Dog Borstal - am wondering if I should dig out my black combats or not!!!:lol:

  
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21:28:03 Tue
May 30 2006

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Re: Kill or Cure!!!

Just keep an open mmind Karen and if you are not happy with some of the advice trust your own instinct. Remember no matter the "expert", Sasha is your dog and no one elses.
Helen

  
SashasMum
12:31:10 Thu
Jun 1 2006

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Re: Kill or Cure!!!

Well we took Sasha up to the Police Dog Section today and guess what ..................... she behaved like an angel!!

She only got cross once when one of the dogs actually growled at her, but the rest of the time she just ran around trying to keep out of their way!!

The chap says that she is in no way aggresive as she avoided all confrontation at the time, and he thinks she just doesnt understand other dogs' actions etc. He said she doesn't have the social skills she should have at her age so she just panics when confronted.

Anyway, we are going to start taking her to his dog training classes and he is going to introduce her to the class in small stages and concentrate on her socialisation skills and desensitizing her to other dogs behaviour.

Am really chuffed actually - it's nice to know I don't have a killer attack dog!

  
gingerboy
14:46:28 Thu
Jun 1 2006

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Re: Kill or Cure!!!

Glad you don't have a killer attack dog.

It must just be me with a deadly ninja boxer called Molly.

Paul

  
SashasMum
14:54:25 Thu
Jun 1 2006

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I have to admit Paul, I remember you saying that you could only walk Molly at certain times of the day (mainly night) so that you didn't meet any other dogs - it was hearing you say that, that spurred me on to do something about it and quick! Couldn't face the thought of walking Sasha in the dark on my own when hubby was away!

Poor Sasha isn't going to know what's hit her - I am going to be booking her into their kennels on the dog section for a long weekend in July while we are away.

  
Polo123
15:16:01 Thu
Jun 1 2006

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Re: Kill or Cure!!!

Glad to hear it went well Karen. Polo was useless understanding other dogs when they growled at him when he was younger - he just didn't realise that it meant they didn't want to play, cos as we all know boxers growl whn they're playing :jump:



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gingerboy
10:55:46 Fri
Jun 2 2006

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Yes unfortunately Molly does not live by the "Fight or Flight" saying. More a case of right lets go and see this dog over here - the first sign of the other dog even attempting to demonstarte dominance i.e. putting its head over her back / neck whilst standing along side her and wham that will do Molly. She instantly takes this as a sign of agression and goes into full ninja attack mode!!!

I think that this is down to her being attacked when she was about 12 - 18 months by a large male boxer of about 8 stone, ever since she has been a physco especially as the other boxer also had a go at tash and she was very young at the time.

So now it's no questions asked, maybe I should get back into training her down at our local training classes if they will have her that is! Socialisation with other dogs maybe the way forward as indicated by your trainer Karen, I think I will make some enquiries.

Good point by Linda regarding how inept boxers are at waying up what other dogs are trying to communicate - Tash is useless!

Take care all

Paul

  
SashasMum
11:47:51 Fri
Jun 2 2006

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I think if you get someone who is understanding of the problem and doesn't just look at your dog as vicious Paul - then training is the best way forward.

I really fail to see how anyone could label a boxer as an "attack dog". They are rarely vicious unless they have been treated badly or have been attacked themselves - they are just too lovable to be mean to the core!

I am sure that, with a bit of patience and a lot of understanding, Molly will be able to run free with lots of other dogs without trying to have their intestines for lunch! It does sound like Molly is very much like Sasha and is more defensive than aggressive, Sasha will completely ignore another dog as it walks past her and it's only if they make any move that she seems as confrontational that she does anything about it.

Even if a dog nicks her ball - she will look the other way and pretend it didn't happen! My big boxer hero!

Let us know if you get her into any classes Paul - mind you, in 7 weeks you are going to have your hands rather full!! Hope Lynne is well and enjoying the later stages of her pregnancy?

  
gingerboy
14:35:43 Fri
Jun 2 2006

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I'm afraid Lynne is not having a good time of it, it is safe to say that pregnancy and my good lady wife do not make a particularily good combination. Lynne does the opposite of "glow".

Bless her she will be glad when it's all over and then the sleepless nights can begin!!!!! Ha ha, I can't wait - we have got a good routine with Mair and Cariad and we both know it is going to be hard work for the first couple of months but hopefully nothing we cannot manage.

Regarding Molly, I'm going to have to do something, don't get me wrong she doesn't always go ballistic, but I can almost guarantee she will pin the other dog down quite literally, thankfully she never resorts to locking her mouth round the throat which is a good thing.

I think mostly she is just saying "look I am boss" which is all well and good until the day she meets her match or takes it too far and damages another dog. She has improved sligtly, for example she will now play with the 2 dobermanns we occassionally bump into down the park, whereas before it was like world war III. I think she accepts that they are more than capable of matching her if not sorting her out if required so she is good with them but thats about it.

More often than not she generally sounds worse than she actually is if you know what I mean - "bark worse than her bite" so to speak, unfortunately that is of no use to the owner of "the other dog".

She is less vocal on lead as well now as I have been making her sit and heel whilst other dogs pass, generally she is good but now and again she will growl. So she improved to some extent.

The strange thing is Molly is such a good person dog - you could do anything to her and she won't bat an eyelid, the kids can play with her, they can take food of either dog and Molly and Tash never growl. If Molly has had enough she just walks off and finds a quiet spot out of the way.

Paul

  
SashasMum
14:40:46 Fri
Jun 2 2006

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Poor Lynne - I know how she feels on that one! I waited with bated breath to "bloom" or "glow" through all three of my pregnancies and it never happened!

Sounds like you are in the same boat as me with Molly. It is so upsetting when you hear your docile boxer going all out to attack another dog, even when you know they don't really mean it! I am always telling the other owners - "it's ok, she won't harm ................. as long as your dog doesn't growl" Then of course their perfect dog growls at Sasha and she retaliates and then ends up looking like the hound from hell and you walk away feeling like the worst dog owner in the world!!

Any top tips you get Paul, pass them on and I will do the same! We''ll get these girls sorted!

  
Jakes_mum
18:43:27 Fri
Jun 2 2006

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EEE Paul, i think your Molly is related to Heskey.....seperated at birth by the sounds of things! Obviously i have only a little history on Heskey so its difficult to say what happened when he was young. Heskey is rarely the aggressor but certainly has every intention of finishing it! It seems to be certain breeds that set him off, though he is terrified of collies!

Liz

  
kerrigan]
14:01:23 Tue
Jun 6 2006

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Re: Kill or Cure!!!

:shocked: Paul your Molly is the exact same as Bonnie, she is absolutely wonderful with humans but other dogs oh no no no, like Molly the first sign of aggression she is on them pinning them down, she too was attack when she was young so it is a case Ill get them before they get me, good thing is now she actually listens to us now & sits when another dog is close by but heaven forbid the dog approaches her

Sorry to hear about Lyn's problems hope she is feeling better soon- imagine looking forwrd to sleepless nights awwww poor Lyn

wish there was a RAF base near us send Bonnie there-there.s always Dog Borstal! Yvonne

  
SashasMum
14:29:56 Tue
Jun 6 2006

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Tonight's the night!!

Am really nervous - I am taking Sasha into a situation where there are 30 other dogs at least!

Steve (the dog handler) isn't phased at all and is looking forward to getting them all together playing. He doesn't want me to put her on her harness even, says just to bring it along but see how she is without it! I have every confidence in his ability to control the situation though.

She has had a bath and looks beautifully white, shiny and smooth, so at least if she is grumpy - she'll do it in style!

If I have the strength left in my arms to type later, I will let you know how she gets one!

  
SashasMum
09:21:27 Thu
Jun 15 2006

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Well that's two weeks of dog "training" Sasha has had now!

The first week she was an absolute angel! She only grumped at a couple of dogs and actually spent 15 mins in a run with another dog, where she was being chased around and then ............ she did the chasing and was playing with another dog - I wanted to cry. Then we introduced a choc lab who insisted on mounting her - much to her disgust, so she told him so!! It taught me that she isn't necessarily "going" for a dog when she growls at them - sometimes she is just telling them to back off.

She was also really sweet with a young black lab pup and, even when it pinned her, she didn't bat an eyelid and she singled her out for more playtime this week!

This week - different matter! She really took the p*** out of me and made me look like one of Victoria Stillwells victims! She just dragged me around and pretended I wasn't even on the end of the lead - she had her "adhd toddler on smarties" head on and was completey wired. I think it was down to the fact that as Rob had been away we hadn't had a chance to walk her since Friday and my ME was playing up when I took her - she could probably tell I was weak at the time and took full advantage!!

Saying that, they reckon she will pass her Bronze award next week anyway so that's something.

As for the socialisation - it's a slow progress but it is improving somewhat. We met a cocker spaniel just as we got to the beach the other week and, even though she was on the lead, she didn't grump at it and was even wagging her tail and saying hello. Then she decided that enough was enough and just sat there waiting for her walk!

Seems to be working!

  
Polo123
15:08:12 Thu
Jun 15 2006

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Quote: Karen

"adhd toddler on smarties"
:roundnround: - love that comment :spinsmile:

Sounds like it's working Karen, it's definitely worth persevering with the training. We took Polo from a very young age and it has certainly paid off. He got his bronze and silver - we didn't bother going onto the gold as it involved all the type of things you see in the obedience section at Crufts, which we thought would be pushing our luck somewaht :smash6: Though he's no angel he usually does as he is told and walks pretty much to heal (does better for me than Bill cos I was the one who took him to classes and he knows I won't let him get away with it!!!) Once upon a time if he saw a dog in the distance he would be off to meet it at 90mph without a second thought, now he tends to wait, and if I tell him no he does tend to listen - don't I make him sound wonderful :newtonguesmile: Some of it probably does come with maturity, but they definitely need to know who is boss :wink:

Good luck next week :smile:



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gingerboy
10:52:32 Fri
Jun 16 2006

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Sounds like it is going well Karen. Glad to hear Sasha is improving and actually getting along with other dogs, although having said that the ADHD commentmade me smile.

Glad Mollys is not on her own - sounds like Heskey and Bonnie could be her type of dogs!!! Maybe seperated at birth!!

Bless em it's such a shame that they seem to to react the way they do. Unlike Sasha who you say barks / growls Karen, Molly is more physical and I know that yes generally things look and or sound worse than they actually are but I just worry incase she does hurt another dog i.e. an older dog that may not be as well equiped to cope with a knock or blow inflicted by Molly.

That said all is going well at the mo and Lynne is on maternity leave now until after Christmas so she is a little happier!!

Take care all

Paul

  
jilldemo
21:36:00 Fri
Jun 16 2006

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Mature Boxer????? Ha! Ha! Ha! Ain't this a contradiction of terms???
Boxers ain't never gonna grow up, and thats why we love 'em!!!

  
BoxerMad
14:56:38 Mon
Jun 19 2006

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Glad the training is going well Karen. I remember when Tia & Kirei were about a year old we started them at dog training classes but we gave up after a few weeks as Tia used to really embarrass me by not doing anything she was told. As soon as the trainer took her though she was an angel. I kept getting told off for not being firm enough with her. I was doing my best but she just would not listen.

Even now sometimes i tell them to do something and they just wander off and do their own thing but i only have to say "Brendan tell them to...... " and they are gone. He only has to look at them and yet he has never been nasty to them. I really try to be firm but it just doesn't work. Although i know they love me loads as they follow me everywhere and they don't do that to Brendan!!!
I must just be a big softie at heart!!

Caroline, Kirei and Henry Monster xxx

  
SashasMum
09:28:52 Wed
Jun 21 2006

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Well she was a lot better last night - even the trainers said she was completely different from last week - a lot more relaxed and less wired!

Didn't take long though - three weeks we have been going and already she has a reputation and the trainers all go on about "that mad white boxer"!! They all absolutely love her though and make such a huge fuss over her - no wonder she likes going!

The evening did end on a high with Sasha playing happily in a field with a 8 month old retriever and a year old choc lab. She actually nearly got bitten herself by a collie - funny thing was, once that happened she was absolutely petrified of going near it - so much for the aggression, she is an out and out coward!

Caroline, sounds like your two just know who is boss!! Sasha responds to me more than anyone else, I am Mum and I am in charge - even Rob laughs at how she will do what I tell her and not him. Mind you, Sasha can still give me two fingers when she doesn't want to do what she is told - you know that "yeah right, thlllllp look they give you" the doggy two fingers!

  
SashasMum
08:28:23 Wed
Jul 5 2006

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My clever girl got her bronze last night!! I didn't think she would pass though! We have to do a "controlled" return to owner from a distance .......... well I let Sasha off and she ran off into the compound and then I called her back .... she shot back, sat at my feet, got her click and a piece of cheese and then .........

............ shot back off across the bloomin compound!! I could have strangled her! :screams: Then when I called her she came running back again, but just as she got to me - she gave me the doggy two fingers with a toss of her head and ran in the opposite direction!! She did come back on the next call though and sat nicely at my feet as if to say - "when I'm ready Mum"! Luckily the guy was just happy with the fact she came back at all! Anyway we passed which is the good thing.

Anyway, we are having a break from the lessons as the Dog Section have all their trials etc for the summer - so we go back in August/Sept and try for the silver! (Can you hear the sense of dread!)

On the agression side, she was really good last night - she was even licking other dogs mouths and getting in amongst three or four of them and having a good play while on the lead. Then a german shephard arrived, who was an absolute coward, and Sasha took an instant dislike to it and just stared it out the whole time - with the odd lunge thrown in for good behaviour! She did my head in - had to put her on the harness in the end - the poor german shephard was almost wetting itself at this mad white boxer shouting at it!

Anyway - at least it's not a pick and mix session like it used to be, she is getting more exclusive with who she dislikes! :smash:

  
Polo123
15:20:11 Wed
Jul 5 2006

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Well done Sasha - she's definitely doing well though Karen even with little 'blips' :spinsmile:



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jacquie
17:01:55 Wed
Jul 5 2006

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Well done Karen and Sasha ofcourse.



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BoxerMad
18:12:05 Wed
Jul 5 2006

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Well done both of you!!!

Boxers just have to prove they have a mind of their own in some way don't they?



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