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people online in the last 1 minutes - 0 members, 0 anon and 0 guests. (Most ever was 29 at 13:36:32 Sat Aug 3 2002)


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geowizardRe: So you wanna placer mine

Placer mining is unique in a way because we have to do it on someone elses land. I would add... we don't have to do this.

Because it is something we WANT to do, but don't NEED to do, success, one way or the other isn't of importance. If it's just a bucket-list item, then the question becomes a matter of what the COST of satisfying the WANT is.

With reference to non responsive agencies;

Corporations have a motive. Many are socially oriented and philanthropic. They give money away. What are the motives behind creation of a Native corporation? The motives are dependent on the members of the corporation and the ability of the leaders of that corporation to satisfy the wants and needs of the members. Because many needs are satisfied by currency, there is a universal need for currency. The Native Corporations have been given a piece of the Alaskan pie in the sense that the parcels of land that have been negotiated and agreed upon through ANICLA will contain the resources that they have available to get done the things they need to get done NOW and in the FUTURE.

Placer mining on Native lands will only happen when the miner or mining company can provide an INCENTIVE". That incentive must be sufficient to satisfy the needs of the corporation. Keeping that in mind provides the appropriate mind set for entering into negotiation.

IF anyone should decide that the buy-in of two parties without the buy-in of the third party is sufficient, then you can expect that i.e in this case, Hungwitchin may exercise their option to prosecute.


I would look for an abandoned placer gold mine on state of Alaska domain. Go, look, discover, stake, record, enjoy.

- Geowizard
ScrubRe: So you wanna placer mine
Thanks for the positive input. Sorry if I was a bit defensive. I'll give your most recent suggestion a try.

I have to pose a rhetorical question in a case of an unresponsive party. It indicates they no longer cares one way or the other. In that case, if I get the proper permits except for the unresponsive party, wouldn't I have a case for exercising the rights I've been afforded by the other parties?

However, I just want to spend a few weeks working hard, enjoying life for the time I've got left and maybe paying for the trip with anything I find.

Thanks again!
geowizardRe: So you wanna placer mine

My comments are not directed at anyone in person. The reply was in response to your question(s). Not directed at you personally, but in reply to the social concepts involved in the business of mining on native owned lands.

How can anyone "make" a business relationship happen when the other party is not reponsive? If the other party is unable or unwilling to respond, then what are the chances of negotiating or communicating or corresponding? It's awkward for an interested party, myself, or any other mining company to send a "letter of interest" to another person or business entity to begin with.

It's an unfortunate part of business that we all face from time to time that has to have a consequence. How many "deals" do we miss out on because the deal maker cannot find us. We missed the call?

Responsibility: Repronounced: "Response ability".

IF Hungwitchin or anyone else is unable, or unwilling to have a common channel for communication, they have cut off the world at large from the ability to correspond with them. That's their choice.

Added information:

TWO resources in Alaska are DNR Recorder and Alaska Department of Commerce.

Alaska Department of Commerce has the job of registering all corporations and business entities in Alaska.

Hungwitchin is a registered corporation.

Send a letter by certified mail, return receipt.


There is a physical address too.

- Geowizard
ScrubRe: So you wanna placer mine
I've tried BLM Lands, State Lands, Doyon & directory assistance, and I'm still unable to contact Hungwitchin. I tried the # you had, & it was not April Frank or Hungwitchin. In fact, the party I reached said they did not know either. The only # directory assistance had close to April Frank was an A. Frank, but that wasn't it either.

I called Doyon back to check the address I had on my letter original letter that I mailed on Sept. 7th in which I originally requested permit consideration. They had the same P.O. Box that I used. Since it was not returned, it's apparently a good P.O. Box, but I have no way of knowing if anyone from Hungwitchin got the letter.

Drilling further, I called Doyon back & asked if they had contact info for Hungwitchin in Eagle. They had a phone number which I dialed, but all I got was a recording stating it was not a working #. Doyon could find no other ph #'s or an address for them other than what I've tried.

So I'm still at an impasse in my attempt to get a surface permit which I'm told I need in addition to the Doyon minerals permit. (Doyon charges $1,000.) At this point, I've tried everything I've thought of. I've emailed all to Doyon's resource manager. He is out for two weeks. He was forwarding my emails to their minerals guy; but he's out for an unknown length of time. I'm still "Hung"-witchin up!

I've spent more than 15sec's of research. I doubt if anyone thinks I'm interested in a theme park pass or that I'd treat natives like savages. I have too much respect for their land & people to do that. (You might try pulling someone else's chain if you hoped to get "a rise" from me.)
geowizardRe: So you wanna placer mine

That's one of my favorites too. Here's another; Doug Clark at Ganes with cleanup:


growlerRe: So you wanna placer mine
Video of placer op. on Anvil crk near Ophir Ak http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLToXbiOgTA Jim
geowizardRe: So you wanna placer mine

I spent about 15 seconds doing a search and got their phone number. It's a published number 907- seven seven eight - 2231. Why not give them a call?

You can read my earlier post on the reality of recreational mining and the Native corporations in Alaska and for most of the rest of the world for that matter. Each one of these corporations has a unique management style based on the leadership appointed to control and administer their domain.

Frankly, they aren't running a theme park. They understand the liability involved in permitting "outsiders" with little or no financial backing and little or no contribution to them as a corporation entering onto their (sometimes sacred) lands.

Early pioneers set the stage for us later pioneers.

Early pioneers treated the natives as savages if they defended themselves or as an expendable inconvenience to be mistreated, abused and enslaved if they were passive. There is a lot of well established history of mistrust of outsiders.

Outsiders come with one reason in mind... To extract the resources that the natives have.

Turning the tables...

Suppose a small group of Athabascan Natives sent you a letter and wanted to dredge for gold in your front yard.:confused:

- Geowizard
kavemanRe: So you wanna placer mine
I'll bet that floating decimal point has killed more ventures than it has saved. Why does it always work that way? Such a small error,...........

Now if the two decimal errors stack,..........? You figure the value at 21 cents instead of 0.21 cents and you weigh the gold at 0.01gr instead of 0.1gr,........you can be off by a factor of 1000. You could lose brazillions of dollars!

Fortunately for us the gov't can just print more money and bail us out, so in the end the errors don't really matter. :devil:

I'm certain the people running this country don't recognise the difference between a million, a billion, or a trillion, so why should we worry about it?
ScrubRe: So you wanna placer mine
I'm back again with another question. Does anyone "out there" know who to contact to request a permit from Hungwitchin? I wrote the purported President, April Frank, (or as I was told by a Lands Specialist in Fairbanks) in early Sept & haven't heard a word. Doyon will take my money for a minerals permit, but says I will also need a for surface from Hungwitchin. Tough to do with no response.

And to Jim_Alaska,
I've stated before "pie are neither square nor round". At the time, is was a quarter of a pie (pumpkin & pecan) but now they're GONE!

overtheedgeRe: So you wanna placer mine


Lest anyone misread this, it is 1/20th of a penny. Or 1/400th of what stated on page 4.

Well don't I look the fool? I misread .21ąC as 21ąC . For lack of a 0 (zero) ahead of the decimal point.

Their figures on the value of -80 mesh are off by 4X. Well, 4X for just the 80 mesh; even more for 100, 150, etc.

Yukon T. reimbursed for this report.

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