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dredgerRe: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.
Ok,bad news, flew a thousand miles, drove a thousand, but didn't make the last 2 thousand , good news, this computer seems to be working ,unlike the last, but too much to do, will post asap. dredger,

ps, still working on rough drawing of bucket, sorry.
dredgerRe: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.
Computer seems to be working, :confused:'

Also, the operater would be aware at all times that the camera is mounted inside the manifold, actually right up inside the manifold, and also be aware to dig with the bucket more " open ", which will direct the high high pressure jets of water " down " onto the bedrock, blowing the fines /gold forward through the bucket teeth and hopefully into the suction inside the bucket, or possably just blowing them higher up the work face, I would suggest that I would have to lower or reduce the high pressure jet to a pressure that will not blast the work face apart, but that would be adjustable,

Wireless would also allow the operater in the processing plant, 40' container on tracks, ( slew and tilt ), to see what the bedrock looks like,as the excavator operater checks for gold in crevices, ect,

Wireless/cameras could also allow the excavators operater/s to see what is happening inside the processing plant, as well as the operater/s in the processing plant, if the processing plant is not a robot, operated by the excavator operaters, wireless, from the excavator/s, :devil:,
Also please consider this line of thought , the camera, used in the processing unit, lots of them, eg , a camera mounted close to the processing plant " hopper", ( front ) is also routed via a computer , the computer is programed to see ( and react ) to the colour of gold, ( actually most of the colours of gold/Pt, ) , similar to camera/ computer USED IN sorting of freshly picked apples, which are sorted by a computer to colour, as well as size,
So the bucket ( 2 cu mtr ) drops a 3' rock in the hopper , the oversize or maybe down to 1' rocks ???. are quickly screened, and " roll in front of a camera " , of course the camera would see a 3' nugget, as well the computer is progamed to or to watch or see, specimens, or gold vains in large rocks, ( as that is the likly scenario for my area ), the confirmed target rocks would travel a further few metres to allow time for the computer to think AND ACT , and be diverted into storage areas, all other oversize rocks would be " dropped or roll out "of the processing plant in front of the tracks to back fill the hole, and provde a ramp or road for the processing plant tracks, please note , in my situation/experience the rocks are pretty well washed, as well the jet of water, and the suction will pretty much ensure very nicly washed rocks for the camera, ( in my area, ),
Bit of luck , my Senior Software Developer, and I will be nutting out the finer computer details asap, I only have to fly 1,000 miles, and drive 3,000 miles to make it happen,
It would also be my intention to screen the undersize and then pass each under more cameras, if only to show the computers, ( will save me looking ) who ( the computers ) will possably recover, or atleast keep count of the gold entering and passing out of the processing unit, asap.via a graph on a computer screen for the finer gold, ??.
dredgerRe: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.
Are you running the wiring for the camera through the front of the bucket? Would think that would wear out very fast. Where is the camera, and the wiring?

Ok, sorry , by "front " I envisage the camera wiring would enter the bucket more or less on the top of the bucket, and out of harms way when working the bucket in rocks ect, the high pressure manifold, [ 1" TO 2" THICK PLATE ] welded to the back { outside upper outer half of the bucket }, the camera and wiring would also have or be slid inside a metal pipe inside the manifold, the metal pipe would insulate the wiring from pressure/shock, and the covered wires from the camera would run from the top of the bucket onto and up the dipper stick, ( big arm that holds bucket to boom, ) then run wire along boom to cab, Wireless is also an option,
I would like to be able to quick release suction/pressure hoses from the processing plant to the excavator as quick as poss, at times when the ecavator has to remove trees ect, that will get in the path of the operation,
I will post, back asap, with more,
AKWhiteyRe: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.
Rough drawing of manifold attached " in "contour with the back of the bucket, shown in light blue, Please note, gray hose is high pressure clean filtered water hose to manifold, which will act as ( 1) the high pressure jet, ( 2 ) low pressure clean water supply working in conjunction with " shock proof " zoom camera and light source, ( red hose ) the idea is if I feel a crevice with the bucket teeth, I locate the the bucket and settle the bucket near and on a suitable angle, knock down the excavator idle , remotely kick the processing unit into idle giving low pressure clean water, and suction that will not rip my head off, and watch the screen in front of me, I am guessing, I would see a bright light and dirty dark water, until the low pressure clean water flows pass the camera, as the clean water " displaces " the dirty water, I would see the back of the bucket first , quickly moving down the the bucket to the teeth, then a good well lite, zoomed view of the crevice, ( width of the bucket and a few feet behind the bucket, still being able to move the bucket around slowly, If I see the need i will shut down the excavator and climb down , reach under excavator steps and to get weight belt / tool belt , hooker face mask, and a good length of flexible suction hose and climb down into the muddy water in work hole, work my way over to the bucket, attach suction hose to suction manifold, find nozzle move into low pressure clean water / well lite / high diver visibility crevice area behind bucket, and clean crevice,
Please also note, this concept is very relative to my area, and river gravel beds with a possible equal percentage of fines and over screen size rocks, most probably not suitable for beach sands only, ??. although , where there is a will. there is a way,

Are you running the wiring for the camera through the front of the bucket? Would think that would wear out very fast. Where is the camera, and the wiring?
dredgerRe: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.
Ok, no 5 computer is working, I think,:confused:. for now,
Sorry been bussy as with life"s probs, and still am, will do what I can, asap, dredger.
dredgerRe: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.
Sorry guys,

bad computer, back asap.
pelukRe: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.
Thanks for the thoughts dredger.I lost my lengthy response even after we discussed that posting problem.

In brief,the area is below sea level.It's a different ball game.
I'll keep you posted.
dredgerRe: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.
Hey Dean, mate, with all respect, I suggest this line of thought , Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator has many, many different sub titles or different relevant mechanisms, but they are all relevant to Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator , and prototype testing of those concepts, which will hopefully apply to any size wet / vac operation, hopefully resulting in a new methods for us all.,

unfortunately, I am extremely pressed for time, ( good news is I am nearly on top of it, ), people to who I owe e-mails please understand , asap. sorry,

Yes mate, allot of different names, and methods,
While I am here peluk, please let me say when I get talking to someone I respect allot, and a legend to me in his own time, I tend to try and give my best info and effort for the new guys, so please don"t think i am trying to or applying any pressure to or at you, please,

Ouch, pumping out water, I wonder if you location / method could be " drained " as you work, which is really relevant to the fall of the bedrock, remembering my river is high in the hills, ( and draining is easy for me ), but if you think about it , it is basically the height of the bed rock in front and behind the work area,, :confused:, Is the or ya creek flat, ??, can you trench all of most water off or down stream, ??.

My suggestion is still with the blower concept ( as referred to by auric for opal mining, and as he says it works wet or dry, , only at a scaled down size to suit your operation, and in the future maybe you can convert or build a " sucker bucket " to your hoe, ?. along with some good drainage practices, ?.

Also, Your hoe is a nice little machine, and with minimum $$ and effort could have another use, ok, if you can picture this , you dig you get to where you want to suck materials, the hoe is left aside, sitting idle, ya hoe is hyd, fit a extra control valve and piping to the bucket, hang on a chain from the bucket, a small hyd motor which drives a small say 3" or maybe 4" / sludge / gravel pump, ( made by your self, ( hyd drive motor off a one man hyd post hole digger should be close, and cheap,, )?? . so you dig the hole hook up the chain and lift the pump and hoses into the hole, the hoe motor run the sludge / gravel pump, materials possibly screened 2" or smaller ,your choice, ? . materials a pumped out of hole with a materials water percentage / water volume to run to suit your multiple boxes, ???.

As you say, " my thoughts are on stabilizing the trench walls and I keep seeing expensive trench boxes.That would involve a large excavator to place and lift them. ". and I agree, and suggest with practice and experience you would be a able to batter and pat pack unsafe areas where you are actually on the bedrock with unstable walls, yes extra time, but with a back filling line of thought in the method, ( moving materials as short a distance as possible, ), and hoe operating experience, you should be able to make the immediate area / bedrock safe to work, I would also suggest with good drainage practices, ( if you can apply them to your area, ) will tend to firm up the surrounding gravels, as they dry out, as the work progresses,

Also diverting the flow away or around, is part of the drainage concept, my experience is to be able to dig a relevant size trench around the work hole, and closely bypass the work hole, without that main flow draining into my work hole,
Three ways of doing this,
1. dam the flow ahead of the work hole, and pump and pipe the flow around and past the work hole, ensuring no seepage back into the hole from the rear,
2. dig a trench, as long as it takes, and line the trench with canvas in ensure no leakage into the work hole,
3, dig the trench in such a manner to cause the silt in the materials being dug, be left behind to act a seal against water seeping from the flow into the work hole,
So I start the river flow bypass trench up above the hole area, not in the flow but a back a little, I dug in a manner to cause all the rocks / gravel coming out of the trench to be washed, water will Sept into the trench from surrounding damp gravels as I dig it, and as I move back , that water level drops, please note the water is very turbid and there is very little flow, leaving almost all silt and fine gravels to settle where they are dug, trench can be 30 or 60 feet long, once the trench is dug, natural drainage will further lower the water level again, returning to the start of the trench i will choose a site a little down stream, and using rocks , stick and logs I build a dam a few feet deep, until the flow backs up and " slowly " overflows into the start of the trench, that flow should be keep slow, so it does not flush the settled silt in the trench , then increasing to full flow and running clear water, I would suggest digging a work hole next to this flow causes silt in the trench to compact and seal that flow from uncontrolled seepage, ( into the work hole, ),

Hey Isfog, thanks for your insight there, and I agree mate,
" Again a much larger vac may change the peramiters ".

Maybe it is time to consider moving up in HP and production,

I have experienced a 10 HP home made 4" , woof, lots of grunt, should handle ya sticky materials ,

Sorry guys gotta run back asap.
pelukRe: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.
"..Funny they called it a blower."
That comment caught me dredger.This past summer I was describing my plan to stand at the top of a trench in the sand.I would be sucking the material off bedrock from a height of maybe 13 feet.

The water level in the trench would have to be kept down with pumps leaving enough for bottom visibility and a lifting or transport medium.

An engineer involved in dredging was saying that it's not a problem.He said he could design a system using air that lifts very well drawing the material up in a process he called "entrainment".He said he could design a system for me and he already sells them as well as uses them.

I let him get away however.I have to stay focused on what I am doing now.He said the compressor does not have to be huge but I believe the size was still beyond my means at present.
Before I get to that,my thoughts are on stabilizing the trench walls and I keep seeing expensive trenchboxes.That would involve a large excavator to place and lift them.
lsfogRe: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.
Well that just sucks Dean --- lol
Yes for sure more science would be appreciated.
I tried a real small version in the back yard and the results were mixed at best.
While I was in the top -- very dry stuff -- everything went ok especially concidering the vac I was useing was 1/4 the strenght of the big one.
Then as I dug / sucked down the ground got moist-er.
The hose then plugged when the small fines bound up on the sides of the "nozzel" and the suction hose.
So after that test I concluded that the material had to be bone dry -- or water close to wash / flush the suction periodicly.
Again a much larger vac may change the peramiters.

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