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dragline
04:18:45 Fri
Apr 13 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

jcazgoldchaser,

Those were some amazing videos. Thanks!

Since my last posting on this subject I have busy contacting at least a two dozen manufacturers about my saw-tooth mat project and I've learned a lot about the differences between thermoplastic extrusions and rubber or synthetic rubber extrusions. I've also identified one or two manufacturers that are very capable and willing to take on my project.

It turns out there are two approaches to mass produce the saw tooth surface I need. Of course I could use the relatively simple silicon mold method as you have suggested once I have a master pattern but my selection of materials for casting this specialized mat are likely limited to a few urethanes and perhaps a few moldable epoxy resins with somewhat poor abrasion resistant additives.

The two strategies I've chosen to research more thoroughly involve thermoplastic extrusion and synthetic rubber extrusion. For superior abrasion resistance there are three extrudable classes of materials worth considering. In order of abrasion resistance...

#1. Nylon 12 (possible Nylon 6/12 or 6/6 with 10% glass fibers)
#2. Polyurethane (with 10% glass fibers)
#3. Synthetic Rubbers (EPDM, SBR or NR with relatively high carbon black content)

For the lowest production and material costs natural rubber or SBR can't be beat. But for conventional corrugated rubber runner mat extrusions at 48 inches wide the tooling costs are huge. These manufacturers utilize extrusion rollers up to 8 or 10 feet in diameter at a cost per tool of $100,000.00 or more! Thermoplastic extrusions like the Nylons or Urethanes are limited to a few specialized manufacturers at widths no more then 8 or possibly 12 inches. Most extrusion manufactures, however, are capable of thermoplastic extrusions no more than about 4 to 6 inches wide.

Another consideration is that the #1 hands down best material, Nylon 12, is now completely unavailable following an explosion and fire at the world's major manufacturer in China earlier this week. All the nylons have about doubled in price in the last 24 months and supplies are extremely limited.

Urethane also has seen recent price increases of 50% or more in most cases but the major problem with urethane is that despite its excellent abrasion resistance it has fairly poor water absorption stability its extrusion characteristics yield very poor dimensional stability during the curing phase subsequent to extrusion.

The only cheap and reasonably abrasion resistant candidate raw material with excellent water stability is a synthetic rubber like SBR or EPDM. In fact the tooling costs for these materials are as low as about $1,000 which plays a huge factor in the prototyping phase of my project development. Minimum first run batch sizes are also economical for EPDM and SBR at between 500 and 1,000 pounds. So for my first prototype, a 6 inch 4-TPI saw-tooth mat, or any other pattern you or me or anyone else might want to undertake, a 6 inch wide EPDM or SBR mat has the lowest first run costs and ongoing production costs that are not all that unreasonable.

I'll be posting future updates as my project progresses.

dragline




  
jcazgoldchaser
23:55:26 Fri
Apr 13 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

How hard is it to cut the stuff?

What about modifying a circular sawblade to make the sawtooth pattern and then building a gantry to cut across a sheet of the stuff.

Initially I thought of a router, but can't find an appropriate bit. A saw cuts a flat bottom by alternating the bevel on the teeth:



Sharpener should be able to create the needed tooth profile and if that worked, you could stack sawblades.

  
dragline
16:21:54 Fri
Jul 13 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

It took a while but I did manage to find an EPDM extrusion manufacturer to make my Saw-Tooth surfaced mat. After doing a lot of searching for an existing saw-toothed surface mat I came to the conclusion that none existed anywhere in current production anywhere in the world. Perhaps there was once such a mat in the past but I'm almost certain that none exists today.

The tooling design wasn't easy and it took a lot of iterative modifications before we stumbled upon a concept and method that resulted in a reasonably uniform extrusion with all teeth at approximately the same height and equally sharp. Even the manufacturing people were totally amazed at how perfectly uniform and sharp the final extruded part turned out.

The minimum batch size would theoretically produce about 1200 feet although our first production run only netted 550 feet owing to the initial losses with getting the tooling adjustments dialed in. Of course EPDM is easily recycled so the initial losses can be easily recycled into our next production run.

To explain the physical properties of this Saw-Tooth surfaced mat I'll first show you an image of the thing...


You should hopefully see the saw toothed surface and a little of the edge profile in the image above. It is a 6 inch wide proprietary EPDM (ethylene propylene diene monomer) extrusion, essentially a synthetic rubber for which the raw material was specifically formulated for superior abrasion resistance and low swell characteristics when continuously submerged in salt or fresh water.

Here is a drawing that should give you a good understanding of the extrusion's dimensional specifications...


You'll notice a male tab on the left and a female tab on the right that when mated together allow multiple 6 inch sections to form a continuous assembly to whatever working distance might be desired. Since this is a 6 inch wide extrusion the length of the extrusion is actually continuous, i.e. I can request that the manufacturer cut the lengths at any length up to about 20 feet. However, the length of the extrusion corresponds to the width of the sluice so there probably isn’t any need to specify an extruded length greater than 4 feet, which is the length that I specified and received from the manufacturer. Only by cutting the extrusion to the width of the sluice and then interlocking these extrusions in 6 inch sections can one completely cover the sluice down the intended length. For example, if I wanted to construct a sluice that was two feet wide and 8 feet long I would need 8 extruded pieces that were each 4 feet long that I would then cut in half to make a total of 16 extruded pieces that were each 2 feet long. Interlocking those 16 pieces together would then create an assembly that was 2 feet wide by 8 feet long.

The next phase of my project will involve the evaluation of this saw-toothed surface experimentally as a primary micro-riffle gold recovery device. In my opinion there is very little if anything novel about using a saw-toothed surface mat as a primary riffle recovery device and so I have no plans to attempt to patent this device for that purpose.

Whether or not this surface might have superior performance relative to other fine gold sluice recovery systems, expanded metal, molded riffle sluices, etc., I can't say. It is way too early for me to come to any conclusions as to the merits of this concept as a primary riffle gold recovery surface. However, and as I have previously mentioned, that is not the purpose for which I designed and fabricated this surface and I will hopefully be able to demonstrate that completely novel and as yet undisclosed intended use at a future date.

One cautionary note, however, is that as a primary riffle gold recovery device this material is not intended for use on relatively large slurry classifications, i.e. you probably would not be happy with the abrasion resistance of this material if you were sending a slurry classified to minus four inches. Excessively massive rocks and cobbles would probably wear down this material realively quickly and result in unsatisfactory service life. What the service life might be at various classification sizes is as yet to be determined but I am hopeful that when classified to 1/4 minus or less the service life will hopefully exceed 1000 hours.

Another immediately pressing goal I have is to develop a website for the purpose of marketing and selling this extrusion at as low a cost as practical so as to cover my development and production costs. Before those online sales come about, however, I will be making this extrusion available to members of this forum that might have an interest in evaluating its performance characteristics experimentally. Please PM me if you would like to get your hands on this material. I only have 550 linear feet (that's 225 sq ft) from this first production run so please contact me soon if you are interested.

dragline
[2 edits; Last edit by dragline at 17:04:02 Fri Jul 13 2012]

  
shaftsinkerawc
03:08:39 Sat
Jul 14 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat


  
thegoldgopher
12:21:41 Mon
Jul 16 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

Would it be possible to make a tiny narrow slit at the lowest point after every peak, and have the gold that settles in there drop through, and not keep bouncing down the sluice? I think that is the way I would approach it, but that would require some very exacting machining, and maybe the finished product would be fragile. Might be hard to remove any gold particles wedged in there, too. Perhaps something as simple as a ribbed mat with grooves cut in with a solder gun tip made to cut rope ends? Or building one out of strips and leaving a slight slit between rows?

Just thinking out loud.

  
dragline
16:56:48 Mon
Jul 16 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

goldgopher,

I believe that you are definitely thinking outside the (sluice) box, and that's a good thing. What you are describing would probably best be called a continuous self-cleaning sluice...

The best example of a continuous self-cleaning sluice that I have been able to find in the USPO archives is this one:
Patent number: 6308835, Filing date: Nov 12, 1999, Issue date: Oct 30, 2001
Patent #US6308835

The following claim from this patent seems to suggest the ability to recover and then discharge the concentrates including gold from slanted and open-ended riffles on the oscillating sluice to a finishing concentration table beneath the main sluice.
Claim #12: A stacked, combination self-cleaning sluice and finish concentrating table for gravity separating heavy material from lighter material:

  1. means for trapping coarse heavy material in a primary trap,
  2. means for discharging coarse heavy material trapped in primary holding trap,
  3. means for discharging over-sized coarse material to tailings using screens,
  4. means for continuous cleaning of sluice deck using riffles with open spaces,
  5. means for discharging heavy concentrate from oscillating sluice to a finish concentrating table,
  6. means for cleaning magnetic particles from concentrate,
  7. means for oscillating two horizontal table decks in opposite directions while in a stacked mode using a rocker device,
  8. means for driving a sluice and finish concentrating table combined, using an eccentric to create a gentle forward motion and compounded to a rapid return motion, longitudinally.

The concept that you are describing would probably be more workable for larger more conventional riffle sluice than a fixed miniature riffle clean-up sluice such as my 4-TPI rubber saw-tooth mat. I could imagine that should you have a sluice with larger 1 inch Hungarian riffles you could build a sliding trap door underneath the riffles where the concentrate is trapped and then slide or hinge that door open periodically and suck the sluice completely clean of all concentrates from underneath those riffles while running clear water through the sluice. The concentrates could then be transported to a clean-up sluice or shaker table and automatically concentrated to remove the bulk of those concentrates.

All these self-cleaning operations could theoretically be run while the wash plant is in continuous operation and, theoretically, the wash plant sluice could run for weeks without ever needing to be broken down for clean-up purposes because the gold and concentrates could be discharged from the sluice on whatever periodic basis you wanted, perhaps on an hour basis during wash plant operations.

I have not found a patent on such a self-cleaning sluice yet but it is such an easy concept, I have thought about it, you have thought about it, and probably hundreds of other miners have thought about it that I could not imagine that it would be a novel approach to designing a self-cleaning sluice. But who knows?

dragline

  
thegoldgopher
15:38:06 Thu
Jul 19 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

After thinking about it a little, I would think that unless one puts the mat on something that allows water space underneath, the slits and riffles will just fill up, and it will be back to functioning like normal. PLUS, anything larger than the width of the slit wouldn't fall through. Sooooooooooo, this would probably be good for a secondary run where the larger overburden has been taken off, and just the fines were run, like a poop chute (a piece of corrugated irrigation pipe cut in half). It's purpose would be to catch the really fine stuff, and it could be made longer than customary, and the water rate set so that the fines wouldn't get blasted away. Once they fell through the slits, they would fall into the calm water between the mat and bottom of the sluice. Maybe this could be solved by just using some very heavy expanded metal that would be 3/8" or so thick. I have two pieces I use 2' x 8' for a dirt separator screen for my tractor. The same thing could be achieved with something much lighter and inexpensive. It would hopefully solve the yearning of those who want to reach that 100% capture ratio, or get as close as they could. I would think that as a simple cheap easy way to go that it could be used to run a very large amount of materials before cleanup, that cleanup would be easy, and mostly all that would be left under the mat would be the very fines. Maybe I'll work on something this winter when I'm doing my other invention. It does sound plausible.

  
dickb
15:59:13 Thu
Jul 19 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

I've been watching this thread and I'm wondering if it may be a good anti-migration mat for under Miners Moss, instead of carpet or burlap. It might work with the teeth facing upstream under the mat to stop the fines from walking down the box. And if it was the right way it might work real well to catch fine beach gold without moss.

Just thinking out loud here.

Dickb

  
dragline
18:48:22 Fri
Jul 20 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

TheGoldGopher,

I am in complete agreement with you regarding the facts about the self-cleaning sluice concept previously outlined. But bear in mind that a self-cleaning sluice would not require the capture zones behind the riffles to be fluidized. Just imagine your typical Hungarian riffle sluice with capture zone almost completely full on non-fluidized concentrates. the actual volume of the capture zones where gold eddies out of the slurry is very small relative to the entire volume of non-migrating concentrates.

Take a look at this concept for a continuously self-cleaning Hungarian style riffle sluice in the illustration below...


Now let me explain...

1. The Hungarian riffles in blue are fixed to the slotted base plat beneath by periodic spot MIG welds such that these Hungarian riffles will not be removable. While most sluice designs require that the riffles be removed for clean-up purposes this self-cleaning sluice is designed to only infrequently need to be broken down such that the riffles and slotted plate beneath are an inseparable assembly.

2. The hinged seal plates beneath the riffle slots can occasionally be hinged down at an approximately 30° angle to discharge the concentrates that have accumulated behind the Hungarian riffles. The discharge area underneath the upper sluice is sealed with a ball valve at the top and bottom and will fill up with water gradually from the leaks associated with the imperfect seal between these slot seal plates and the slotted base plate and riffle weldment. Located at the bottom end of this sealed undercarriage will be angled sides that funnel the contents to a single round tubing that points straight down about 2 inches, sufficient to attach a flexible hose with a hose clamp that will then extend down to a point near the ground where you might position a five gallon pail to catch the concentrates.

3. To clean the sluice you merely need to stop adding material and wait a few seconds for the water to run clear. Opening the ball valve at the top of the sluice will permit air to enter the sealed collection area. Because the lower ball valve is close no air will flow in until the lower ball valve is opened. Next you would pull a lever that would cause all hinged seal plates to rotate 30° clockwise opening the slots beneath the riffles. At that point most of the concentrates beneath the riffles will fall into the lower collection area. When the lower ball valve is opened the weight of the water in the collection area will then wash all of the concentrates down and through the lower ball valve down the hose and into the 5 gallon pail. The suction from the water flowing down the collection area and then down the tubing will pull clear water from above the riffles through the collection slots thereby scrubbing out all the concentrates from the nooks and crannies directly beneath the Hungarian riffles.

4. The 5 gallon bucket will quickly fill with all the concentrates from the sluice and then it will begin to fill with clear water and then overflow. The lower ball valve can be closed slowly to reduce flow or stop flow completely as the bucket fills and then additional clean-up pails can be moved into position or the hose can be repositioned to fill any number of pails until all sluice concentrates have be completely discharged into the 5 gallon pails.

5. After all sluice contents have been collected the lower ball valve is closed, then after the collection area have filled with water the upper ball valve can be closed, then the lever can be pulled back to raise the hinged plates to form a seal with the slotted plate beneath the riffles.

6. After that the wash-plant operations can resume.

Total down time will probably be about 1 to 5 minutes tops depending upon the how large the wash plant is and how many buckets it takes to capture all sluice concentrates. But bear in mind that the pumps and flow of water over the sluice will never need to be stopped during these clean-up procedures.

Claims:

A lot of you are probably thinking that this won't work because you don't see where the miner's moss fits into this design and a sluice without miner's moss is like a gun without bullets. I claim that miner's moss is not needed if the sluice design incorporates certain features and that this specific design as illustrated will function perfectly well without miner's moss. Gold or concentrates cannot migrate underneath the Hungarian riffles down the sluice because the riffles are welded to the slotted plate and there is nowhere for the gold to go but either into the concentrates underneath the Hungarian riffles or back into the slurry.

Take a look at any video of Hungarian riffles in action and you will see that non-fluidized concentrates beneath the riffles fill up the volume of space beneath the riffles almost entirely. The active eddy zones of fluidized concentrates that actively capture and then retain gold from the slurry is extremely small relative to the total volume of concentrates. Typically these capture zones are well above the miners moss such that for the vast majority of the operational time the miners beneath the concentrates in a typical Hungarian riffle sluice are doing absolutely nothing to capture gold. However, the miners moss will periodically play a role in securing the gold that has been captured when the fluidized zones of the slurry periodically dip down into the mat causing the gold to drop down into the mat and then be captured more securely. Whether the gold drops lower into concentrates or into miner's moss doesn't really matter when there is nowhere for the gold to go once sequestered.

In my opinion the roll of miner's moss in securing the gold from the eddies and forces of the slurry in not significant in a Hungarian riffle sluice where the distance between riffles is not huge. The importance for employing miner's moss with an expanded metal riffle system is another matter but given the right conditions, such as a V-Rib or Square Notch Mat underlying the expanded metal in intimate contact, I don't believe that miners moss would be absolutely necessary for identical recovery efficiencies there as well.

dragline

  
dragline
19:37:03 Fri
Jul 20 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

Dickb,

I appreciate your comment, however, if we are talking about my saw-tooth mat I apologize that I don't see any advantage for this saw-tooth design versus any other fixed pattern mat extrusion such as Keene's V-Rib mat or regular square notch pattern vinyl runner mat that you can buy at Home Depot. The point of putting a ribbed mat underneath miners moss in an expanded metal sluice is to stop the migration of gold underneath the miners moss along the bottom of the sluice which will be slanted downward a an approximate 15° angle in most cases. This tendency for gold to migrate underneath miner's moss is a bit of an urban legend in my opinion. I personally don't believe that any reasonably good miner's moss like Wayfarer or Nomad is going to allow gold to migrate through or underneath it assuming it is properly secured.

For the purpose of the discussions I'm having here on this thread the only application I can see talking about would be its use as a primary riffle recovery mat when utilized under very specific conditions. Those conditions would require that the slurry be classified to about 1/4 minus and for this reason the most likely application for my saw-tooth mat in this regard would be as a cleanup sluice where one wants high recovery efficiencies for 100+ mesh gold with very little other worthless concentrates, i.e. black and blond sands.

Whereas a Popandson sluice will get you extremely good recovery efficiencies, i.e. 97% or 98% at 100+ mesh, the difference between a Popandson sluice and my Saw-Tooth mat sluice is in respect to the ratio of gold to non-gold concentrates. The Popandson sluice will probably have ten times more non-gold than this saw-tooth mat relative to the gold it captures.

A possible advantage of the Popandson sluice is that for a given recovery efficiency it will require less stringent controls, i.e. you could probably classify to a larger 1/2 minus than the Saw-Tooth sluice's 1/4 minus and you could probably tolerate greater flow variations with a Popandson sluice than a Saw-Tooth Mat sluice. But if you are merely wanting an efficient clean-up sluice that is simple to operate and you can tightly control your operating conditions you are probably going to get less total non-gold concentrate at the end of a run but with no difference in total gold recover efficiency.

dragline

  
blacksands_man
18:13:40 Thu
Jul 26 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

Been thru about 10,000 gold related patents = speed eyeballed,
this sluice design is almost 100 years old - self cleaning & harvesting and no moving parts in the sluice (but the feed /water motor assuming would be) elegant & simple, should spark some ideas...

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1516640.pdf

Here's some of the most wear resistant UHMW plastic / material available you can get it in black regrind for outdoor use...

http://www.garlandmfg.com/plastics/stock-shapes.html

Abrasion resistance of the plastic chart = 10x better than steel ...

http://www.garlandmfg.com/pdf/CPSGAR-DURWebSheet1re.pdf

Hope it helps..

Blacksands man:>
[1 edits; Last edit by blacksands_man at 18:24:02 Thu Jul 26 2012]

  
geowizard
16:17:29 Sun
Aug 26 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat


Personal experience:

After have spent this past year setting up a mining operation at Ophir, in the final analysis, it came down to matting in the sluice box.

All of my sampling over the last two years was done with a Proline combo highbanker. With every clean-up of the highbanker, I could see gold in the ribbed matting beneath the grizzly bars. Actually, it is my belief that MOST of the gold was caught in the first (only 12 inches) of ribbed mat!

I set up two 50 cu yard per hour washplants with 23 HP Keene pumps, two Bobcat loaders to feed dragline tailings this summer. Short story is that the Astroturf with expanded did not catch the gold. Miners moss did not catch the gold.

Important lesson learned... It all comes down to the mat. :smile:

  
baub
03:16:12 Tue
Aug 28 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

Hi Geo,

Long time no see.
You captured most all the gold in the ribbed matting, eh? Any details on the matting, maker, style, price etc?
I made a sluice or two last year and used 3M Dirtstop as the recovery media and I found NO gold in the tails. It's a bit of a pain to clean thoroughly, so I just give it a flush at a sharp angle and go again.
I would like this ribbed matting info so I could build a tattle tale sluice ahead of my primary sluice.

b

  
geowizard
14:25:30 Tue
Aug 28 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

Thanks for the information, baub.

The commercially available mats are not specialized for gold recovery - although they work to a certain extent.

I am testing the mat that dragline is promoting. This could be what we have all been waiting for!:smile:

The sawtooth mat has the qualities needed for fine gold recovery. I would simply add expanded on top to reduce the abrasion of the slurry and get a little more settling from the expanded. These things all make for great discussion!
[1 edits; Last edit by geowizard at 14:27:00 Tue Aug 28 2012]

  
geowizard
14:48:00 Sun
Sep 16 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat



I have completed testing of dragline's sawtooth mat...

I ran a lengthy test of the mat with various angles and rates of flow - starting at the prescribed 2 inch per foot drop, above and below. The mat was very forgiving in the sense that this mat recovered 100 percent of the gold in all cases.

My observation was that this mat "holds" the gold against the vertical wall. It holds other concentrates at the same point and the more dense gold replaces the cons at the base of the wall. The force of the water curling over the peaks of the sawtooth mat actually drives the gold back against the base of the vertical wall and "holds" it there. In this case... the more flow, the more force there is holding the gold in place! :smile:

The gold was always captured in the first 6 inches. So, it's not a matter of gold getting away after moving down the mat to a lower level and out the end of the sluice.

I used 100 pieces of test gold that was 50 to 100 mesh.

I think this represents a well thought out solution that probably works BETTER than was expected - even by it's inventor - creator - dragline!

Larger gold may be recovered as well and testing should be done to confirm.


- Geowizard

  
baub
16:41:48 Sun
Sep 16 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

Geo,

Any plans for the minus 100 to 200 ?

b

  
geowizard
18:47:33 Sun
Sep 16 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

baub,

There was actually several 300 mesh pieces that I use for control purposes. They were also recovered.

The gold came from Ophir Creek. I found 300 mesh to micron gold in the sedimentary rock. The sedex gold will be a large bulk mineable resource that requires high volume for processing.

- Geowizard

  
overtheedge
21:24:19 Sun
Sep 16 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

Haven't been able to really run a hard test on the sawtooth mat due to this being a higher than normal water year.

In the past, I ran heavy rubber v-rib with no expanded. So far the limited trails of the bare sawtooth has been better than the v-rib. I see a higher percentage of -80 mesh from the deposits I have to work underwater (sigh). I run it at 1:12 pitch in a A-52 converted to a highbanker with a 28gpm pump and screened to -1/4". I run the water depth in the sluice about 3/4".

I have noticed that while running, the flour gold is hidden under the magnetite sands. The bed action is just what I wanted with the magnetite doing the Hawaiian wiggle and the lights being bounced back into the main current. So the concentrates have almost no lights to them.

Once the sawtooth mat is on the market, I'll be standing in line to buy it. Best bedding material I've tried yet for flour gold. The bed sorting activity is ideal. The bed capacity beats the heavy rubber v-rib by a bunch. Clean-out is fast and easy; about on par with the v-rib.

Although none of the gold hereabouts is larger than 1.6mm (1/16"), I'm pretty sure it will hold gold up to about 2mm or a bit more.

Were I in an area with larger gold present, I would run the sawtooth with the current system and then reduce the sluice width to 6" or a bit less, steepen the reduced sluice's pitch to 1:8-1:6 and bed it with the Gold Hog Scrubber mat.
eric

  
dragline
14:21:14 Tue
Sep 18 2012

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baub
19:46:28 Thu
Sep 20 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

Dragline,

Any near future plans to sell to the mining public?
My interest would be in widths 6 to 12 inches wide and make the sluice length to whatever length you would be selling, eliminating the need to trim. Could customize a sluice to fit the mat.

b

ps: Thanks for the comments Geo and Overtheedge.

  
dragline
23:07:03 Thu
Sep 20 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

I apologize that I am not selling my Saw-Tooth mat to the general mining public yet. However, if you'd like to PM me or send me an email I am accepting applications for beta testers.

So far the testing data I've received from a few miners is encouraging but the 550 linear feet I netted from my first production run won't last long and I want to get as much testing data back as possible before I place another order.

In this regard I am actively recruiting experienced miners that will agree to perform controlled experiments comparing the performance differences between my Saw-Tooth mat against various other competing mats under varied conditions. So if you or anyone else here on the forum is interested please contact me.

dragline


  
dragline
22:28:58 Fri
Sep 21 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

Bear in mind that my Saw-Tooth mat is a 6 inch wide extrusion and you'll need multiple pieces bonded together to fill your sluice. The extrusion starts out of a continuous length and I specify they be cut to 48 inch lengths from the manufacturer who then stacks them on a pallet and ships them to our warehouse.

Therefore, and for example, if you want to construct a cleanup sluice that is 8 inches wide and four feet long you'll need 8 pieces each 8 inches long. The length of the extrusion becoming the width of your sluice. But these are just loose floppy pieces that you would either have to bond to a hard surface or clamp at the edges. You could glue them to the bottom of your sluice but the problem there is you'd have them permanently affixed to your sluice and clean might be a challenge. These things will eventually wear out as well and then you'd be stuck having to chisel the old mat out.

One strategy I've seen used is to bond the segments together and then clamp them at the top and let the mat rest in the bottom of your sluice. This might work or you might consider bonding all pieces to an aluminum sheet that fits snugly in the bottom of your sluice. If your sluice is not over about 8 or 9 inches wide the easiest cleanup method is to stick the end of your sluice in 5 gallon bucket and rinse down the sluice concentrates into the bucket.

But whatever you approach you decide to take you're going to need a good solvent based adhesive to bond your mat either together or to a substrate. The best deal that gets the job done well that I've found is Weatherbonder LC-60.



It costs $28.95 for a gallon and shipping is reasonable except in the case that you're shipping to Alaska
http://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=16077 :confused:

  
Golddigger
08:06:18 Fri
Oct 5 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat is called African Pattern Rubber Riffle mat

Hello dragline,
Sorry to say but your rubber mat is not novel or a new invention, I have seen a picture on a web site discussing materials used for gold prospecting in South Africa.They
are using it in South Africa and it is called : AFRICAN PATTERN RUBBER RIFFLE MAT. Google www.elvahost.com SLUICE MAT you can find the website also showing your rubber mat with saw teeth design. They seem to be using it there.It is very hard to find more info about it even if you google with google south Africa.There must be a producer in s.Africa who is making the same product you are making.
Attached a picture of this mat showed on the above mentioned website.
:confused:
[4 edits; Last edit by Golddigger at 08:27:50 Fri Oct 5 2012]



[ Attached File: african_mat.jpg - downloaded 19 times]
  
geowizard
16:11:58 Sat
Oct 6 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat is called African Pattern Rubber Riffle mat


I'm actually surprised there aren't a dozen manufacturers of saw-tooth mat. With the interest in gold recovery as gold prices are going up almost every day, this is a very marketable product.

Having tested draglines version, which is an improvement over the African version, I would highly recommend it!

This IS a GOLD MAGNET! It catches all of the gold and hangs on to it.

The only other recommendation would be to have different riffle sizes.

- Geowizard

  
dragline
04:54:31 Sun
Oct 7 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat is called African Pattern Rubber Riffle mat

Golddigger,

I really appreciate your letting me know about that South African saw-tooth mat. I found the image was really very interesting...



It certainly looks similar to my saw-tooth patterned mat design. Perhaps the teeth are a little more rounded at the point but that probably doesn't effect the performance much. From the scale of the photo it appears that the TPI (Teeth per Inch) are a little more spaced out at perhaps 2-TPI as compared to my mat's 4-TPI. But all said it appears to be an excellent and functional design for a primary riffle design.

I had heard from other sources that there were similar saw-toothed mats in production here in the USA many decades ago but for whatever reason I couldn't find any such mats in production or for sale either retail or commercially.

Do you think that this South African saw-tooth mat is for sale anywhere now? I searched the links you provided but couldn't find anything. If you could please post a link to where I can buy this competing product I'd be very grateful.

I hope you don't think that I was intimating that my saw-tooth pattern mat was novel in any way. In fact if you read back through my earlier posts you will find that I had no such thoughts about this surface or mat. It is such a simple pattern that there has had to have been many thousands of inventors with thoughts of this pattern previously and likely many dozens that have fabricated and experimented with almost identical or very similar patterns. My surprise after researching this saw-tooth surface pattern was that it didn't seem to be readily available for sale anywhere and no one seemed to be making an effort to commercially market such a saw-tooth surface mat.

That said I can tell you that none of these applications for gold concentration as a primary riffle recovery system have anything to do with the reasons why I designed and manufactured this saw-tooth patterned mat in the first place. My original and what I believe to be novel application for this mat may or may not prove valid. Only experimental demonstration and validation of that novel use will prove my hypothesis and until that happens mums the word on what that application might be. Unfortunately, I don't presently have time to pursue that experimental effort. In the mean time this saw-toothed patterned mat does seem to have some efficacy as a primary riffle system for gold recover and regardless of whether I ever do validate my hypothesis I will begin retail and commercial sales of this mat soon.

dragline

  
baub
05:00:38 Sun
Oct 7 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat is called African Pattern Rubber Riffle mat

Good luck dragger.

  
dredger
05:28:59 Sun
Oct 7 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat is called African Pattern Rubber Riffle mat

Geowizard, please mate,

What are your thoughts about having different size riffles,

Perhaps in 2 different situations,?
1, being say a 6" river dredge situation,?
2, a high volume with earth moving equipment and well classified gravels situation,?

dredger,



  
geowizard
14:50:13 Sun
Oct 7 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

dredger,

dragline has been very generous in his offer to sample this mat out for testing to members of the forum. Having seen this stuff work, I can only say that I am amazed. It has from my testing, proven to recover 100 percent of the gold that I seeded the head of the box with. It recovers all of the gold over a wide range of flow rates and angles of drop. This mat is what the industry has been waiting for!

I understand it isn't new. It's new to us because the period when it was developed has come and gone with the ebb and tide of the price of gold. We find our selves now having to re-invent the wheel. The old timers are gone for the most part.

A specialty company would do well producing this mat in several sizes. When a company is able to buy in volume and sell in volume, it generally runs with greater efficiency. I am sympathetic to the issues dragline has described. It is difficult to produce anything in small volume and especially when you need to rely on another company to do the production work for you. It's expensive to set up the forms and dies to get into production.

- Geowizard

  
baub
17:29:54 Sun
Oct 7 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat

Agreed. Dragline has done a hard job well and has an ideal rec media. I've been fingering some sluice designs based on his idea.
I have used a p/s sluice his summer and was well pleased. Draglines media could be comparable.

b

  
overtheedge
18:05:32 Sun
Oct 7 2012

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Re: Saw-Tooth Mat


Quote: dragline

In the mean time this saw-toothed patterned mat does seem to have some efficacy as a primary riffle system for gold recover and regardless of whether I ever do validate my hypothesis I will begin retail and commercial sales of this mat soon.


Well this year was a bust due to high water all season long. None the less, the few tests I did on the river shoveling from under water showed it superior to the heavy rubber v-rib I normally use. To say I was impressed with its capabilities for flour gold would be an understatement.

However if you have a fair amount of magnetite sands, don't bother trying to see any gold while the water is running. It is hidden under the magnetite. I usually take a sample pan every 15-20 minutes to make sure I'm still on the stringer. The pan said, "yes", while the mat appeared to said, "no." But the gold was there. Tucked away nicely under the magnetite.

When you start selling the mat, let us know. I'll make sure I have money in hand.
eric

  

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