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tvanwho
21:41:25 Tue
Aug 18 2009

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My pump motor blew up

Somehow I lost the oil in my Keene /Honda 2.5 horse pump.I guess the banging noises we heard when I last went to start it on Sunday was the engine blowing a rod or some other nasty thing!! I pulled the pump housing off hoping it was a rock in the impeller but no rocks. When I removed the oil cap, only a few drops of oil were in the crankcase instead of it being full like it was last time I checked, dunno where it went?
So, where can I get a new Honda 2.5 horse Model GXH50QXA engine for a good price? I checked with Small Engine Warehouse.com. They have the motor for $260 but it has a keyed shaft. My buddy tells me I need a threaded shaft instead? Keene wants $365 plus shipping. I am in Illinois, near Chicago.
Also, I had an issue with my highbanker? We were starting to get into some pickers in a bedrock crack running across the width of a large creek. Unfortunately, my dredge hose was only 10 feet and as we would pull on the hose, my engine kept falling over where we had it propped up on a flat rock. I wonder if that had something to do with my loss of oil? PLus, my highbanker is only set up to run in less than a foot of water since i have 14 inch wheels mounted on the back end for portability. The creek was pushing 2-3 feet deep where the crack was giving us the better gold.
One question, how much dredge hose can I use with the Keene 2.5 horse ,100 gpm pump, sucking water up about 3 feet from the stream bottom to the highbanker intake?
2nd question, how to mount my pump in the creek without it falling over? One fellow suggested a 2 foot square plywood sheet bolted to the engine base, maybe anchored with rocks. It would sure be nice to get the pump a foot or more above the water tho?
We did get 7 small pickers for our efforts, not nearly enough to pay for $300 in engine repairs tho. We also secured landowner permission to mine in another section of the creek with bedrock riffles exposed.
Thanks.

Tom

  
rlh1946
00:19:49 Wed
Aug 19 2009

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Re: My pump motor blew up

I had a stand with adjustable legs made an just bolt it on

  
Brian_Berkhahn
01:21:54 Wed
Aug 19 2009

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Re: My pump motor blew up

To get the correct engine for the pump your going to spend about 365.00 and your buddy was correct, it needs to be a threaded shaft.
With that small of pump I would imagin that you wouldn't be able to go with any more hose unless you upgraded to a larger motor.. even a 4hp with a P185 pump on it would work better for you.
A cool idea that I've seen people do with their motors is to mount them to a small car tire, it keeps them from vibrating around.

Brian

  
tvanwho
01:44:10 Wed
Aug 19 2009

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Can you please post

A picture of your stand?
Thanks. Brians car tire idea sounds like an option or maybe a small car/trailer wheel.

-Tom

  
kurt_Blumberg
01:47:48 Wed
Aug 19 2009

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Re: My pump motor blew up

I recently purchased a 6.5hp Honda Clone with a 3/4 keyed shaft. I clamped the shaft with a vice grip and went at it with a 3/4 die and some good thread cutting fluid. It worked like a charm. Probably best to get a new, high quality die as the shaft is pretty hard steel but if you take your time...cut a little, back it off, cut a bit more and keep lots of fluid on it, she'll go. Be real careful starting out that you're on straight

  
dredger
03:32:14 Wed
Aug 19 2009

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Re: My pump motor blew up

Gee wizzz Kurt, that is so simple,

I wish i had have known about that many years ago, I paid big bucks to a honda machanic at the factory to have them threaded, they told me the had to disassemble the engine, :confused:. .

dredger.

  
LipCa
04:09:52 Wed
Aug 19 2009

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Re: My pump motor blew up

I bought a new 6.5 honda with a keyed shaft. Before I even put oil in it, A friend of mine removed the crankshaft(took about 15 minutes to remove it!) Welded the keyway with some sort of plastic weld. Put it in a lathe and made sure that it was round and the correct diameter.
Then, put it in a vice(padded good) and threaded it by hand.
You have to have the correct length of shaft and thread.
This was for the Keene P180(what is the P185?)
Somewhere on Mike Higbee's site are the specs for this. I'll look for it in a few.

This is the thread I was thinking about but Honda changed the link in the thread....but, by going to the Honda manuals, you should find the diagram of the threaded shaft.
http://www.49ermike.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=181&topic_id=53941&mesg_id=53941&listing_type=search

Here's more discussion:
http://www.49ermike.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=181&topic_id=32425&mesg_id=32425&listing_type=search

This is the one you NEED to read...it has the specs..

http://www.49ermike.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=181&topic_id=39848&sub_topic_id=39853&mesg_id=&page=#39854
[3 edits; Last edit by LipCa at 04:53:42 Wed Aug 19 2009]

  
MarshallAk
15:19:10 Wed
Aug 19 2009

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Re: My pump motor blew up

Quote: kurt_Blumberg at 01:47:48 Wed Aug 19 2009

I recently purchased a 6.5hp Honda Clone with a 3/4 keyed shaft. I clamped the shaft with a vice grip and went at it with a 3/4 die and some good thread cutting fluid. It worked like a charm. Probably best to get a new, high quality die as the shaft is pretty hard steel but if you take your time...cut a little, back it off, cut a bit more and keep lots of fluid on it, she'll go. Be real careful starting out that you're on straight



That's darn good info kurt....I didn't know it could be done. Now that we all know, I'm sure others will try it. :smile:

Marshall

  
LipCa
16:05:38 Wed
Aug 19 2009

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Re: My pump motor blew up

MarshallAk...

The 6.5 Honda(or clone) when threaded, comes with a 5/8 inch thread.
You do not thread it to a 3/4 inch thread.

This is from the third link I posted:

In response to Reply # 7


Lip-CA

I just upgraded from a 5.5 to a 6.5 Honda. Actually it was a clone of a Honda called Power Train. I found it on ebay for a good price. It's electric start. It came with a 3/4 keyed shaft. I took the engine apart to remove the crank. No problem with any gaskets. The first thing I did was to TIG weld the first inch of the key way with silicone bronze rod. Silicone bronze is a low heat filler rod. Then I chucked it up in my lathe and worked the first inch of the shaft down to .624. Next I started the die on the lathe as to keep the die lined up perfectly square. Once I had a few turns started I took the crank out and finished it up clamped down in the vice. My lathe can make threads but I'm not that advanced yet. I left the remainder of the shaft at 3/4" because I have a pulley for that diameter. Also the pump casing was too tight to fit in the engine cover, so I also chucked it up and took .005 off it. The shaft length of 2.31 is real critical cause the impeller bottoms out on the end of the shaft.

I ran some numbers on pulley diameters with engine speeds and I'm going to increase the 2" to a 2 1/2" on the engine shaft. Keene said the Gast could run at 1450 RPM. Also the T-80 can run up to 1800 RPM.

Mark


This is exactly what he did to my engine.

  
oregonau
20:33:06 Wed
Aug 19 2009

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Re: My pump motor blew up

3hp B+S with pump on GPAA site. Don't know if your interested but you might check it out.

  
tvanwho
00:41:44 Fri
Aug 21 2009

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Ordered a Honda WX 15 today

Apparently Honda dealers are not allowed to sell their stuff on the Internet? They can advertise it and give you a description but NO prices.. I called about 15 of them this week. I finally found a GREAT price on a Honda WX15 self priming, 73 gpm pump, ( MSRP was $499 ) for $399 shipped , and no sales tax, from Washington State to Illinois.
I know it won't be as good as the Keene but the price is right and I can tear apart the old engine when I have nothing else to do this winter and see how bad the damage is. I was told there is an Oil Alert thing on Honda engines which is sposed to keep the engine from starting if the oil i too low? It obviously failed in my case? I wonder if Honda would repair it for free even tho its 2 years old now? Guess it can't hurt to ask them?
Ps, does Keene put threads on the Honda 2.5 engine shaft themselves since I cannot seem to find a threaded shaft motor from anybody else?

-Tom

  
LipCa
02:13:14 Fri
Aug 21 2009

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Re: Ordered a Honda WX 15 today

Won't be near the pump you had..

Did I understand you to say Keene's was $365?

"So, where can I get a new Honda 2.5 horse Model GXH50QXA engine for a good price? I checked with Small Engine Warehouse.com. They have the motor for $260 but it has a keyed shaft. My buddy tells me I need a threaded shaft instead? Keene wants $365 plus shipping. I am in Illinois, near Chicago"


Or, was that just for the pump? You don't need the pump, just the engine.

  
tvanwho
05:59:53 Fri
Aug 21 2009

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Re: Ordered a Honda WX 15 today

The Keene price was $625 for the whole 2.5 horse motor and pump, $365 for the engine alone,assuming I could remove and reuse my old pump off the blown motor? I just figgered 399 for the WX 15 and I wouldn't have to fool around with priming the pump for my next several trips this fall, even tho I will get 30 gpm less output. More time mining,less time fooling around with priming.

-Tom

  
LipCa
14:40:10 Fri
Aug 21 2009

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Re: Ordered a Honda WX 15 today

Should have been nothing wrong with the pump.

I suspect that they are two very different type pumps though. Keene probably put their pump on the 2.5 hp and the new one has more of a "trash" pump style.

Should work ok for a small highbanker though.

  
tvanwho
02:03:52 Sat
Aug 22 2009

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Yes, they are

The Honda WX 15 is a 70 gpm self priming trash pump, and the Keene /Honda rig is a 100 gpm centrifugal high pressure pump. Both are good pumps.
I will see about rebuilding the blown motor this winter perhaps. I have not rebuilt a small gas engine since high school days, 35 years ago, will be a new experience for me.

-Tom,ps, the stock market sure looks strong right now.I am predicting a top around Dow 10,000 around Sept 30, and then a major downside move Nov/Dec that looks right scary,like Dow 4500,dunno what will trigger it yet.,maybe gold will move up over $1000 this time? This recession is far from over....

  
baub
02:18:02 Tue
Aug 25 2009

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Re: Yes, they are

How about a Pacer pump? 5- 7hp , 2 inch output and good volume Around $300 at Tractor Supply.

b

  
pickaxe
23:42:09 Tue
Aug 25 2009

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Re: My pump motor blew up

If you are going to use a clone, you could use this:

http://www.boats.net/HostedStore.LassoApp?-ResponseLassoApp=detail.lasso&ID=d0351b3f36c68299ccb91eaf129ee929

6.5 Honda and 6.5 "clone" parts interchange.

That is a threaded water pump crank. I've got one. Also if you look around you can find printable (from the internet) Harbor Freight coupons for $119 and $129 6.5 clones.
[1 edits; Last edit by pickaxe at 23:44:57 Tue Aug 25 2009]

  
tvanwho
02:46:34 Wed
Aug 26 2009

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we tore apart the engine and found out some things

Number 1 thing, the 2.5 horse Honda engine from Keene is NOT a 5/8 inch outside threaded shaft like I was told. The threaded part is actually a threaded allen screw that screws into the center of the keyed shaft and the other end fastens to the pump impeller looks like. So, that means I could order the keyed shaft 2.5 horse Honda GX50QXA engine from SmallEngine Warehouse.com for $260 and save $100+ off Keene's $365 price for the engine alone? Or at least that's what it looks like assuming all of these Hondas have a threaded center hole in the end of the shaft?
2nd thing, there was still oil in the engine after we got it apart. Around a cup or more of oil was still in the crankcase.This would tend to indicate that the Oil Alert system failed. This thing is sposed to keep the engine from starting if the oil is too low? Too bad my warranty is just over at 24 months? And there were chunks of metal in the crankcase from a broken connecting rod turns out. The rod sure looks like bad/defective metal to me where it broke at. I wonder if Honda would give me a new engine anyway just to keep me as a customer? Can't hurt to ask I spose?
My new Honda WX15 pump arrived today from Northwest Tool Supply. They must have sent it by 3 day UPS air, included in the $399 price. Sure can't beat that deal anywheres else I searched.
I will see if I can upload a picture of the broken connecting rod later.

-Tom

  
LipCa
02:56:59 Wed
Aug 26 2009

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Re: we tore apart the engine and found out some things

that's correct...2.5 hp is not 5/8" thread

  

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