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AK_Au_diver
06:21:51 Thu
Jul 16 2009

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How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome


How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome
A friendly guide to get you started

With all the discussions over the years regarding dredging offshore Nome, I figured I would start an open-source primer for the newbie with hopes and dreams of making it big by dredging in Nome. Hopefully other experienced dredgers will add their thoughts and experiences, to save newbies some of the headaches and heartaches that so many of them go through.

More money has been spent to get gold from offshore Nome, than the value of all the gold that has been gotten from offshore.

In no particular order:

How to prepare to start an offshore dredging operation:

Note: I am amazed by how much people are willing to spend on gold mining, without any experience or research, there are no other undertakings I know of where people will shell out tens (hundreds) of thousands of dollars without doing prudent research. They wouldn't spend that much to buy a stock or a vehicle, but many eagerly shell it out for a gold mining adventure.

-Talk to people that have done what you hope to do.

-Come and see in person the conditions and environment in which you plan to conduct your operations.

-Learn something about the trade. If you have never cleaned-up ten ounces of gold, but plan on getting hundreds of ounces your first year, then you are being unrealistic.

-Learn something about the location. Where will you be staying/camping, are you sure you are allowed to, is your information current and accurate? Where will you be mining, is there any gold there, are you allowed to, is your information current and accurate? Talk to people that have done so recently.

-Are you planning on dredging on the offshore Nome East Beach Recreational Claim? That area has been hammered by dredges for 15 years. There is almost no gold left. Enough to have a fun vacation, but not enough to pay for your trip, let alone pay for the equipment or make any income.

-Are you planing on dredging on some one else's lease or claim? Do you know them? Do you already have permission? Are you planning on dredging the open areas? Why are these areas open, are they still open, is there any gold there, does anyone else dredge there?

-Determine what size dredge you want to run. A six inch is the smallest dredge size that makes sense. Smaller than a 6-inch and you are constantly moving rocks. Larger than an 8-inch and you need more permits. Most people run 6-to-8-inch dredges.

-On paper, an 8-inch runs twice the material as a 6-inch, because it is twice the size. But that's not the case, gold is often in the rocks, and rocks slow down the operation. An 8-inch only moves a little more material than a 6-inch, maybe 20% more.

-On paper an 8-inch dredge moves 30 yards per hour. This is the volume of sand that it could move under ideal conditions. The offshore Nome gold is not found in ideal conditions. The "Golden Sands of Nome" do not have much gold. Gold is found in the rocks and gravel. A physically fit diver can expect to move 3 to 8 yards per hour.

-Offshore Nome, it's not about the cubic yards per hour, it's about the square yards. The gold is mostly located in a thin layer on the clay-pan, under the sand/gravel/rocks/etc. So don't bother with the deep sand, or the the deep rocks.

-Offshore ocean dredging is not like river dredging, other forces move gold, concentrating and diluting it. Sea ice, ocean storms, glaciers, and currents are all factors.

-Offshore ocean dredging is not like river dredging, the current changes velocity and direction, or disappears. You need a good anchoring system and a hydrodynamic dredge, or you will only be able to work in the most optimal conditions.

-Offshore ocean dredging is not like river dredging, winds and weather are big factors. They cause turbidity and rough conditions. Waves will splash on deck, your dredge will get beat up, you will be weathered out for days or weeks at a time. Your dredge and budget needs to be able to take it.

-Offshore ocean dredging is not like river dredging, Norton Sound is salt water. Corrosion is a constant enemy, anything steel will be covered in rust, if it's in the water or just in the salty air.

-If you plan to make money, you need an APMA and all the permits and licenses for dredging. Sure you may be able to dredge without one, in some areas offshore Nome if your dredge is small enough. But if your dredge is big enough to make a profit, then it is big enough to get the permits.

-Everything will break. You need to know how to fix anything on your dredge and support equipment, and be prepared to do so. This means a welder, a grinder, tool sets, spare parts for engines and electrical, etc.

-You will not make any money your first year, so don't plan on it. You will be lucky to cover your operating expenses (fuel). Learning to be an offshore dredger by starting your own operation is a very expensive education. Plan the trip as an expensive vacation, doing a hobby.

-Do not be creative or inventive. Plenty of people have invented what they believe to be the be-all-end-all super dredging machine, they spent years and a fortune designing and building it. Then it doesn't work. You might be smart. But hard work gets more gold than smart. That is a fact. If you have not spent a few hundred hours dredging the old fashioned way (a diver at the end of a suction hose), then you will not be able to come up with a working system to get rid of the diver. I know of several very smart people that have had hundreds of hours of dredging experience and still failed to design a working system that gets around having a diver.

-Look up the research papers and drill log data for the offshore Nome area. Then realize that it's all mostly worthless. That data is 30+ years old, the ocean has moved the bottom materials, including the gold, for all of that time. The main point, that is still relevant, is that there is gold out there, but not everywhere, and it's not consistent or uniformly distributed.


Here's what happens to most people who come up here:

1) They buy the wrong gear.

2) They ship the wrong gear up here, then assemble while the season has started and spend some of the best dredging days working on stuff.

3) They troubleshoot and redesign their dredge for a couple weeks.

4) They go out, most to the Rec area, and dredge worked ground and tailings.

5) Many find out that they are not physically fit enough to dredge.

6) They think they have ten times as much gold as they actually do, because they are inexperience in judging the box/concentrate. Gold is deceptive, a little looks like a lot, when it's not cleaned up all the way.

7) Stuff breaks, bad weather hits, they run out of money, then they sell everything for ten cents on the dollar, if they are lucky, often less.

8) They leave Nome broke with a great story and an amazing adventure that most people can only dream of. And, for most, it was worth it.

Here is my suggestion:

Take the $100k (a lowball number) that you would have spent designing, building, shipping, constructing, redesigning, fixing, etc. your own operation and give that money to me. I'll give you back $10k plus let you work on my dredge for two weeks, and let you keep up to four ounces of the gold found. You will come out ahead, learn a lot, and have a great adventure.

Or, if you have $600k, give it to me, and I will design and build a dredge that might get enough gold to break even in three of four years, and you can own 50% of the operation, so long as the operating and repair expenses come out of your half. I'll take 50% to pay myself and the crew. Or, if it fails, the operation could join the list of failed bright ideas.


  
NeilAK
09:10:02 Thu
Jul 16 2009

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Re: How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome

That is one of the smartest posts I have seen on the bb's I frequent in a while.
[1 edits; Last edit by NeilAK at 09:10:35 Thu Jul 16 2009]

  
Herschel
12:55:54 Thu
Jul 16 2009

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Re: How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome

I enjoyed that post. NeilAK, you just saved somebody some money. Great info.

  
peluk
20:07:56 Thu
Jul 16 2009

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Re: How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome

There is an idea there that is workable I think.It has to be brought down to an affordable level but it will work.

A visiting dredging enthusiast invests in another working dredge at any one of a number of levels.His return would be based on the financial risk.He assists on board and sees the good and bad points of dredging offshore.It would be like paying for a guided hunt.

Problems would arrise however as days might drag on with no time on the water.Personalities would clash as they often seem to do in mining partnerships.

It would,as Ak_Au_Diver suggests,save the aspiring dredger from really getting in over his head.It would certainly better prepare the individual to go further or give it up entirely.

Here is a taste of the dredging atmosphere here from one week.
Ex.1...A towny commented that a young dredger was really put off by the cold water and current.That's not bad...if you're only helping out,and not strapped to the investment.

Ex.2...A dredger is running his 5" dredge through its paces in a local creek prior to going offshore.This is wise as he found out.As I watched,water was squirting out the seal on his pump.He said it couldn't have been run dry for more than "a few seconds at most".Moments later,no lie,he put his back out of allignment.Next step was to enquire about the local chiropractor,walk over to his ATV,and drive away.
Ex.3...Last night,a diver came by my yard.He said he had just had a fallig out with the dredge owner.He asked if I had a spot where he could stash his gear and sleep for a couple of days.I pointed him to a good clean back shed and he went and got his gear.This morning,he called to say his other prospect had come through and he was diving again.

So,there you go.The Sun was out a few days ago and it was calm.On the east side waters,there were 16 dredges afloat both large and small.That means there were probably 4-6 more on the west side waters.I've never seen that many in operation at once.
Yesterday the east beach looked like a parking lot for dredges because the wind was up.

I just loaned my 5"dredge out.It is inland now and a deal was struck.I'll see at season's end how feasible that was and I'll let you know.

  
Holotadigin
02:14:31 Fri
Jul 17 2009

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Re: How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome

I'm just going to retrofit that submarine I bought on craigslist with the robotic arm kit I found on ebay. Is the season open year round?





---
"Be careful man,It's the internet, people can say anything!"
 
 
captainmal
04:58:41 Fri
Jul 17 2009

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Re: How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome

Great post AK_Au_Diver. I'm in Fairbanks in Aug for 14 days. I'm sure you'll still be working hard in Nome so I probably won't see you. Get while the getting is good.
[1 edits; Last edit by captainmal at 04:59:27 Fri Jul 17 2009]

  
kurt_Blumberg
05:12:47 Fri
Jul 17 2009

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Re: How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome

Great original post AK Au Diver,...wise words I will squirrel away for the future when I'm tempted to return to Nome...then to do battle with the elements that guard the gold.

  
MarshallAk
18:04:12 Wed
Mar 14 2012

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Re: How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome

How well I remember my one adventure into mining on the Nome beach many long years ago: OMG...did I freeze my A@@ off! The humidity and wind just cut right through my clothing...40 degrees felt like 5...

Bring WARM clothing!

  
azkid
05:46:06 Thu
Mar 15 2012

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Re: How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome

hit me up while here we can goto breakfast or someting and shoot the breeze

  
dickb
17:36:20 Thu
Mar 15 2012

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Re: How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome

Ak_Au_Diver:

Great post!

Maybe you could start a gold rush up in Barrow. Would be harder and more expensive than Nome, think reality tv would be interested? "ARTIC OCEAN GOLD DREDGING"

:confused:

Dickb
[2 edits; Last edit by dickb at 22:49:35 Thu Mar 15 2012]

  
AK_Au_diver
20:59:36 Thu
Mar 15 2012

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Re: How to Start Offshore Dredging in Nome


Thanks guys, hopefully my post helps out some people.

I was trying to avoid resurrecting a long-lost thread by posting a link to this one, I guess it didn't work. Just be careful to look at the date of the comments you are responding to.

I know a guy that comes to Nome for vacation every summer and all he does is buy good equipment for cheap off miners that just want to go home, and sells it to the next wave for a profit.


  

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