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fladredger
10:30:07 Tue
Apr 8 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Hey Two Bit.Greg in BC just bought up an interesting question in another thread titled Trommel vibration.Your sluice is isolated from trommel vibration for the most part,or it seems so.I wonder if by having your sluice set up the way you do if you are losing some benefits that others with on frame sluices get for free.Just a thought.I realize it would be hard for you to capture this free energy but ,I was wondering if this might not be something to give a little thought too for others.I know my sluice, being supported entirely on frame ,will have full benefit of trommel vibration.If there is any.Hmmm.Is there any data on vibrating vs stationary sluices?Perhaps a thread? You mentioned a spraybar inside your collector. Are you getting a large buildup there that dosent flow to your sluicebox,hence the extra water?I ask because I made a collector like yours for mine.Do I need to expect buildup in the flat collectors?Hey, I'm still building.I dont want to be throwing stuff when I take it to Georgia to try out trommel attempt #2.LOL Randy

  
tabwyo
16:15:18 Fri
Jun 27 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Thanks Pop & Son for a great sluice. I had to register just to say that I appreciate the work and I think you are really onto something good. I am pretty new to prospecting but even a newbie can recognize a good thing when he sees one.

Just one question though. Have you guys done any testing on your riffle configuration?? I have been reading into the subject and have found research saying that adding the largest riffle section last may actually help in fine gold recovery farther up the sluice as well as trapping the larger stuff. From what I gathered having the largest section of raised expanded last allows the sluice to establish a laminar flow faster at the sluice entrance allowing fine to drop out before having to speed up to go over the larger expanded.

I have recently made a 7 foot long by 8 inch wide Popandson style sluice with interchangeable expanded riffle sections. It aint pretty but it seems to work. I have yet to try the largest section last configuration. But I have ran the sluice with a 1 foot section of 1/2 raised and the rest 1/4 inch and recovered very fine gold with only ribbed carpet backing. I also ran the sluice with 100% 1/4 inch with 1/4inch nomad & ribbed rubber matting yet recovered no visible gold from the very same spot I had recovered gold at the day before with the previous set-up. I am pretty certain it was more a factor of way too much flow vs the riffles/nomad/matting though. But I did retain about 1/5 of a 5g buckets worth of concentrates vs 1/5 of a 3g buckets worth from my previous arrangement.

All in all I guess I just wanted to say thanks for the great ideas. That and I figured input, be it success of the lack there of, from the field can only help you guys in you efforts in making the ultimate fine recovery sluice.

  
Zooka
17:47:08 Fri
Jun 27 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Tab,
Thanks for posting your experience and experiments, that is so important to this forum.

One thing that can happen when using expanded on moss, or on several other types of matting, is that if the matting sticks up too far into the boil area of the expanded, it'll prevent those boils from forming. And the boils are what causes the syystem to work. Laying expanded on a ribbed carpet usually (depending on the carpet) will not cause that interference with the riffle action.
Some guys have found better success with their unbacked moss upside down, as that surface is quite flat, and matches up to small riffles without disrupting their boils.
Or, it may be that ribbed mat is a better gold keeper in your deposit.
Or just plain better overall.
That would be contrary to my tests and those of Popandson but then we sure as heck aint perfect!
-Z

  
tabwyo
23:43:08 Fri
Jun 27 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I am headed back out tomorrow to the same area. I'll pay closer attention to the action in the expanded riffles. The last couple time I was rather preoccupied with keeping an eye on the kids and dog. Tomorrow it'll just be the wife and I so I should get so serious sluicing done.

  
popandsonminers
00:40:53 Sat
Jun 28 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Thanks Pop & Son for a great sluice. I had to register just to say that I appreciate the work ..

Thank you, tabwyo, for your kudos and appreciation and the report on your own sluice experience. Not too many years ago we were new and looking to find the best simple set-up for fine gold recovery. I got a lot of help from folks on the internet forums and kind of got carried away with testing and reporting, myself!! And if you keep experimenting, youll find what works best for you. Lots of insights are to be found on this forum so take the best and use them for yourself.


As far as the configuration of largest expanded at the top or at the bottom of the sluice, I dont think it matters much. A smooth transition from one to the other is more important with no rooster tails of water from the transition from one to the other. So, I put the bigger expanded at the top so the water drops onto the smaller expanded below it. Just for fun, clean up under each size of expanded individually to see how much gold is under each one. Then, swap ends with the size of expanded and clean up under each one again. Im pretty sure the percentage of gold will be about the same in the top expanded each time, which ever size is at the top. And it will be in the topmost 12 of sluice. As far as way too much flow. causing you to lose gold from your sluice, you can start with 1-1/2 slope per foot of sluice length and water at deep, which will get a high percentage of recovery, and adjust from there.


Seeing this thread again reminds me that I updated the Popandson Sluice guidelines paper in April 08. It has additional information on feed and flow rates. It also has a companion paper I wrote for the several people who were thinking about building the P&S sluices for sale. The second paper also has a good description and pictures of our sluice for the little 2 dredge we used last year showing the use of 3# grating as the largest expanded. In a dredge with more flow and larger rocks, deeper riffles are needed than in a highbanker to catch .22 bullet-sized gold. Ill gladly send both papers to anyone who e-mails me at SNDG@comcast.net.

  
jssbastiat
20:31:57 Sat
Jun 28 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Just wanted to add my thanks for the research and publication of the P&S sluice.

We used the info to narrow down our design and it worked out well. Also, we had P&S help us get setup here and appreciate the extra help....we're gonna send some con samples your way!

One thing we did to cut out all of the beach pea gravel was to put the 3/16 expanded metal under the 1/2 all the way....we found that having open 1/2 over MM would allow the small gravel to stop the top of the MM up and allow the heavy red/black sand to also clog up the MM pores...we have a good vibrating action all teh way down through the exp. metal...if we overload, we give it a minute and it flushes out...

so, we had a good beading action all the way down our sluice...2x6 ft...we poured the water to it at a step incline....1.75 drop, heavy water, long sluice, allowed us to run for at least 12 hours run time on our MM before we cleaned it up....we changed our daisy mat every 3 to 4 hours...very little gold over the end until about the 10th hour, we had some very fine gold go over, but nothing we watned to mess with....and the expanded metal started filling up quicker at the 10th hour and we had to feed it slower and give it a break to clear our a little after 6 to 8 shovel fulls....

one last thing we want to add to the design is a sliding mat system under our 2x3 hopper to where we have a daisy mat cut to fit it...with 1/16 screen on top of it to prevent the small pebbles from clogging it up...and have this on a tray that we can easily pull out of the hopper for cleaning every 2 hours...we have had excellent large and small gold catching abilities in our hopper with the daisy mat..it also helps to smooth the water action out by having the daisy mat hang over and down towards the slick plate, so, the water/.slurry just slides down and does not foam up....

thanks P&S

  
tabwyo
02:49:09 Tue
Jul 1 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I think my issues are using the P&S sluice as a stream sluice. I'll stick to useing it as a recirc.

  
popandsonminers
04:44:22 Tue
Jul 1 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Scotty, Sounds like you hit the Mother Lode!! And have found a good combination of sluice design elements that works well for you--- Now that it's not snowing anymore, you can make good time---- Good trick with the daisy mat to prevent foaming

tabwyo- We've used a P&S sluice successfully as a stream sluice and also on our recent acquisition, a 2-1/2" Proline dredge with air. Light enough to pack in quite some distance, but big enough to move a lot more gravel from the right spots. We made a new sluice for it and the three sizes of expanded: 3# grating, 1" and 1/2"raised expanded worked to perfection in our shakedown trip (no gold, just moving gravel). The rocks went over the end and the diamonds had good action and were self cleaning.

So, I think once you get the hang of using a fine gold-getting sluice, you will have good success, even as a stream sluice. Use the recirc for sampling, small runs or clean-up, as the thru-put is pretty limited.

  
tabwyo
01:25:22 Sat
Jul 5 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I had originaly set the sliuce up as a recirc highbanker. I am surrounded by desert here so restricting myself to areas with water seriously limits my options. I have had better result with the sluci by classifying the material down to 30 mesh first. I can pan the rest.

  
paperweight
05:11:20 Thu
Jan 8 2009

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

This is a really great thread. We are building very similar to the setup used by twobit except instead of the trommel, we have an old 500 gallon propane tank to make a hopper out of which will have parallel spraybars aimed at grizzly bars like a large highbanker. I wonder how a sluice like his would work if it was fed 1 1/2" minus or even 2" from the hopper. It looks like he uses 2x 2" pumps.

  
paperweight
19:23:06 Thu
Jan 8 2009

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Clarkson recommends at least 432 gpm per foot with 1inch angle iron. A honda 4in from Northern tool says 383 gpm which is probably at full rev.

  
popandsonminers
21:40:06 Thu
Jan 8 2009

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Paperweight,

The P&S sluice is a fine gold recovery device, and 1-1/2 to 2 feed material is too big for good performance and will also beat the smaller expanded to death in short order.

Id say experiment with the feed to the P&S sluice at -3/4. This could be the lower end of a Vee sluice, where the larger material is run thru the upper sluice at a high rate with Clarkson angle iron riffles, then thru a 3/8 or grizzly to feed the lower sluice. Heres a small version Power Sluice Vee sluice to show what Im talking about. Good luck and please report back!



  
aumbre
07:07:54 Sun
Jan 11 2009

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Thanks to all for the great info I've been picking up on THE FORUM.
Pop & Son, concerning your testing of milled hardrock ore; Have you made any changes to the general operating plans? Are you able to adequately clean the Nomad between batches for accurate testing of separate samples? What are the other minerals that are in the concentrates?
I have hardrock material ("in place", dump rock , and milled tailings) that carry au, ag, cu, pb, & zn that I would like to test for gravity pre-concentration at the site and further processing at the shop.

  
popandsonminers
23:25:46 Sat
Jan 17 2009

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Aumbre,

Yes, the Nomad will clean up quite well. We now use backed Nomad with good success. Even tho some losses are expected, our last experiments with hard rock ore, pulverized to minus 60 mesh, showed we were running too fast and recovery must improve to get the finer gold. I would say for your hard rock tailings, assuming fully ground to a fine mesh, run with 1" to 1-1/4" slope per foot, 1/4" deep water, and slow feed to keep the diamonds in the raised expanded very visible. Use a visqueen dampener. Test the sluice tailings as you go, then increase slope and volume until you lose too much gold for your comfort level.

Wow, best of luck with your pile of tailings. Depending upon how they were processed, there could be significant gold in it. You also might think about a Falcon Icon bowl, debated on another thread on this forum.

  
AKBill
21:15:06 Sat
Feb 14 2009

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

This is great! I seem to find far more super fine gold than any thing else. Would this work in a sub dredge set up?

  
hoppingforpay
05:59:52 Tue
Feb 17 2009

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I have been using raised expanded metal on 5" 6" and 8" dredges for over 20 years. I quit hungarians in Idaho do to checking the content of one riffle. The last one. While hungarians work good in a fast flow with not to fine of gold.Expanded metal works well with not too coarse of gold. I have found fine gold to catch quite soon on expanded metal but I have found coarse gold to spread out along the box with expanded metal riffles only. So I change according to what I find. Gold in the tailings is what I check. I don't worry to much about a few pinpoints because it takes millions to add up to any kind of weight. You either have to have quite a bit of this super fine gold in the ground to make it add up or move massive amounts to see it add up to real money. I like to use a double layer of 3/4 expanded metal since it holds a better concentrate than one layer in the case of too much flow causing a clean out of the riffles. Instead of gold being blown out to the next catch it instead has a place to sink out of the way from the flow.

  
deltana_guy
22:11:19 Thu
Jul 30 2009

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I was wondering, how effective would it be if I took the sluice off of my 4" keene dredge and used the triple sluice to recover the fine gold, until I needed the dredge again. When I was buying the dredge I was told the Triple Sluice Box was designed to hold on to the fine gold. Has anyone tried this? Would beat fabricating a new sluice for me if this was a way to go.

Also wanted to say thanks to everyone on this forum, TONS of useful info. Out in the creeks you dont see much people to exchange ideas and information.

  
Muley
05:34:13 Tue
Dec 28 2010

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Found this great info and since it was on page 25 I wanted to bring it back up to page 1. that way it may be of some help to some of the newer members that may get some value out of it.
:smile:

  
baub
06:17:13 Tue
Dec 28 2010

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Good idea, Muley.

  
popandsonminers
03:28:46 Thu
Dec 30 2010

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Thanks, Muley, I'm glad you "bumped" it. I've sent out the "guidelines" papers mentioned earlier to maybe several hundred individuals. Many have replied and are quite complementary. I still have the files and are glad to send them to anyone who wants the updated info on the "Popandson Sluice". E-mail is: SNDG "at" comcast.net

I did get a recent comment about using a second dampener. The point was that perhaps one should be used on both the top and bottom of the sluice- on the bottom so that if the sluice is shut down and re-started, some of the fine gold already in the sluice, exposed to the air, would float and be knocked down before it floated out of the sluice.

I wish I would get more reports of the use of a P&S sluice on larger placer operations, screened to maybe 1/2", as I think they lose a lot fine gold due to high thru-put and courser expanded if using the Clarkson or Poling design. If anyone has tried even 1/2" raised expanded on a large-volume placer operation, please let me know--

It's also been rewarding to hear of a number of Artisanal Small Miners (ASM) around the world that have used P&S sluices to capture more gold and not have to use mercury. I've sent info to all continents, and some have replied and are hugely appreciative.

And thanks to all the supporters on this forum! We're now working on testing and recovery from hard rock ore, so will keep all updated as we progress.

Here's hoping that next year is even better for you than this one was-----


  
torchman
06:08:42 Thu
Dec 30 2010

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Has anyone ever seen expanded made out of poly (plastic)?

  
dungbeetle
13:09:56 Thu
Dec 30 2010

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

has any one used scourer pads instead of Miners moss?
They look like they'll do the job ok.

Do different mesh underlays affect the sluices ability to capture fine gold? I'm using cordoury - but it's clogging with black sands pretty quick, the door matt MM looks too course a pattern for the reall fine (5mm) mesh i'm running.

  
Muley
18:25:16 Thu
Dec 30 2010

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Dungbeetle, "Micro-Sluice" use's 3m Scotch brite pads thats the only one that I know of.

Torchman, I have seen plastic expanded somewhere but don't remember where, but it was flat not raised, if weight is a problem then check out alumimum raised expanded.

Popsandon, This is one the top ten posts on this forum, I would hate to see it lost.

:smile:

  
Jim_Alaska
03:04:12 Fri
Dec 31 2010

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I found the plastic mesh at Lowes or Home depot. It is in the roofing and/or plastic rain gutter section.



---
Jim (Alaska)
Administrator
Jim Foley's Alaska
jfoley@sisqtel.net
 
 
Prospect09er
01:33:03 Sat
Jan 1 2011

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I took a Keene A52 sluice box and modified it, applying the Popandson concept. I think it works awesome for fine gold with just 3/4 and 1/2 expanded metal. I did raise the slick plate 5/8 to let the material drop-in opposed to making it climb over the first riffle. Not sure how much of a difference it made??? Needs more testing.
I still need to find some 3/16 expanded metal though. Ive had a heck of a time trying to find any scrap. Ill eventually end up buying a half sheet from somewhere, Im sure.

One thing I want to do with this A52 mod., is test it against the stock riffles and carpet that comes with it.




[1 edits; Last edit by Prospect09er at 01:41:19 Sat Jan 1 2011]

  
InspectorTom
17:57:26 Sun
Jan 2 2011

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Me &amp; Tank Klamath 200
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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Prospect09er,
I may be stating the obvious but have you tried looking at your local scrap metal business? They often have old screen doors & such where various sized alum. pieces can be scavenged. How about your local high school welding class? My brother is a welding teacher & often has scrap expanded laying around. Best of luck...T

PS - Nice mods to the A-52...

  
Steppegold
18:31:15 Sun
Jan 2 2011

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Scrap metal dealers is a good idea. In Mongolia the front ventilator grill of Russian microbuses have raised expanded metal. I've not found a scrap one yet, as these machines seem to run for ever' I've not summoned the courage to steal one; and I may end up having to buy a microbus!

Its easy to get FLAT expanded metal. They are used, at least here, to hold together air filters for CAT dozers and excavators. The old filters are discarded so you can get them as freebies from any CAT dealer or driver. But the darned expanded metal is flat, so its of limited use.

Hope this helps.

Steppe

  
popandsonminers
19:26:10 Sun
Jan 2 2011

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

You can get 3/16" raised expanded at Lowes or Home Depot. Look in the screen door section for a "pet screen": it is just what you need. Sorry, Steppe, I don't think you have Big Box stores in Mongolia?

  
Prospect09er
21:22:58 Sun
Jan 2 2011

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Thanks for the ideas! I just need to keep looking. Ive looked all over in my local Home Depot and Lowes, and nothing. But I will look again in the screen door area, I must have missed it. I did buy some rib lath (for stucco), but I didnt care for it. Ive hit a few scrap/recycling metal places, but all they seem to have right now is flat expanded.
Im always looking on craigslist, but still, nothing I can use. The 3/4 I have now I found at a welding shop.
Any thoughts on an all aluminum expanded system for a sluice box? Ive wanted to try it.
McNichols seems to have everything I need, too.

  
overtheedge
23:27:52 Sun
Jan 2 2011

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

For really fine mesh expanded aluminum, just go to the nearest mesh-type big ugly satellite dish (C-band). The expanded is right small and probably will need pre-classification to 20 mesh or so.

  

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