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peluk
21:34:52 Tue
May 4 2010

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Slate Cleanup Sluice

About one year ago,I think someone mentioned a slate cleanup sluice which was sold at a prospecting show in Oregon.I saw the picture of it but I can't remember the name of the device.

It was stated that all of the units were sold that were brought to the show..Does anyone remember that?

How would you cut pooltable grade slate without having it fragment?Would it be an abrasive disc?If so,would it have to be diamond abrasive with water?

  
tenderfootminer
21:42:33 Tue
May 4 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

peluk I cut slate with my tile saw,with water :smile:

  
dredger
01:07:54 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Reason why i like this forum and it's member so much is " I learn heaps every post they make ".

Eg, I am such a dummy not having thought of a pool table as a source for slat, what a thick head I am, thanks peluk,

Notes to self, leave the slat in pool table for getting it home,
leave the slat in pool table and set up "as " saw bench " base ", rent the right good quality med size saw for 1/2 a day, better cut for grooves , remember to use full length straight edge metal guides for the saw guides, 5' lengths of 2" by 2" metal angle is good,clamp angle to the wood base, and remember to let the saw do the cutting, pushing it to hard " chips the edges",

thanks, a prob solved,


  
JOE_S_INDY
02:06:24 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Gents,

If I remember correctly, pool table slate is quite thick - on the order of 1.5 or more inches thick. If so, that would also increase weight a lot for any slate sluice of length.

Last year I tried to find an old slate school blackboard to try my hand at constructing - to no avail. A slate countertop - no luck either.

Joe



---
Wiser Mining Through Endless Personal Mistakes
 
 
tenderfootminer
02:15:50 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

slate tiles are cheap maybe glue a couple together on a board?

  
dredger
03:09:53 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Bingo tenderfoot,

Your concept is cheap and easy, light weight , and a chance to have perfect slightly raised leading edge crevices, :devil:, no probs to suck with a sucker bottle,also eliminating the need to cut groves in slat, I suggest that would work well, save a lot work, water proof board, excellent, cheapest light weight slat, table yet,

Thanks Joe, Thick slat is interesting too, I did not know that either, still a cheap supply of thick slat is handy to know,

Another thought too is lay the tiles, then hirer a tile polisher to ensure the bed is flat, if ya don't want any gaps at all, maybe polishing with a diamond sanding discs night rough up the slat in circular paterns may increase friction, ??.
dredger. :smile:

  
Muley
03:13:26 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

The original "Miller Table" was made of slate and copper plates. See Steppe's post http://bb.bbboy.net/alaskagoldforum-viewthread?forum=2&thread=813 for a discription and some history on the table.
When I was a youger man there was a man that was making them and selling them, I think he was in Sacremento?
Good luck

  
eightymesh
03:40:21 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

you can use chalk board paint over plywood

  
tenderfootminer
05:01:36 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

was the copper for mercury? not that any of us would still use it :devil:

  
peluk
05:39:34 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

The pool table slates are as Joe suggested , about 1.5"thick in a full size table.There were 3 sections in the tables I've dismantled.

Slate will crack in a wink so that blackboard paint,often suggested here,sounds like a good alternative.The underlieing wood, would have to maintain a perfect flat plane.Still,I'd like to know about the small sluice i mentioned and how it worked out.

A tile cutting saw is set in a framework isn't it?It is limited in its travel.That's not a big deal.I would just use the same blade with an angle iron fence and a circular saw...If water were required,I'd be reluctant to set the saw onto it.
I might try it on a broken edge first.

  
tenderfootminer
06:04:44 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

peluk lots of tile saws are like a table saw but wet so U could rip as long as ya wanted.I have a waterbottle kit that has a little hose and vave for a makita with a tile blade works great on small stuff. if worried about flat for the paint why not use metal or aluminum?will the paint stick?As for slate tiles ya can get them for a couple bucks a peice on sale at home depot and joannes fabric in fairbanks has the paint.Hmmm might have to try both just for the fun loloh yea headed back to the mine in morning so maybe a rainy day project :devil:

  
Au_Seeker
20:29:00 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

I use too recover pools tables and the most common "bar" size table the slate is 3/4" thick, the thickest most commonly seen is on regulation size tables and usually 1" thick, and some older tables with up to 1 1/2" and the slate is in 3 pieces, there maybe some older or top of the line tables that have thicker slate but most modern tables do not (the last 20 to 25 years), it is too costly to have slate any thicker and a real job to move tables with slate any thicker.

I have never had any of the slate break even with the bar size tables that you have to lift the entire 1 piece slate out of the table to recover them.

You would want to cut the slate with water, not dry or you will get chips along the edges from the heat build up and it will burn up the diamond blade fast.



Skip
[3 edits; Last edit by Au_Seeker at 20:41:35 Wed May 5 2010]

  
peluk
21:29:28 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

What I have out here in the front hall,on the floor is one of those sections.You are correct,it is 3/4"thick.I have messed around with other tables that were thicker but it was years back when we would move them out of houses in a disassembled form.

This slate I gathered 20 some years ago,came from a table here in Nome.It was not the largest model.That term "largest" I'd have to research.Maybe a billiards table is larger.

When I say the slate would break in a wink,that was my experience.I have them setting at the bottom of my front steps and one in the hall at the door sill.The inside one has remained in one piece.The outer ones have cracked though layed on stable ground.When we were disassembling them with an eye to just getting them out of a basement,care had to be used as I recall because a jar or a slight drop would crack the sections.Our business did not depend on care however as yours did.

I think,if i were making a shaker table out of one,not just a cleanup sluice,I'd be sure to put plywood under it.
I'm not in a hurry to build anything out of slate.I want to know how that little slate cleanup sluice worked.I am still creeping along fiddling with "grasses"and Polar fleece types,mini-corduroy and now the new Keene ribbed mat.
I'm learning things as well like how much of a grade can be put on daisy mat in a sluicebed.

There's a shaker table in my shed which was designed for tungsten.It has a reputation for working well on gold.It is thick wood.For now,I just watch tables work in general to see how they speed up recovery over panning the different sizes individually.Then the consideration of the shape of the gold also come into play.

  
Au_Seeker
22:43:06 Wed
May 5 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Peluk,

The pieces you have outside were destined to break with the ground expanding and contracting, even with a sandbed under them they would most likely to have cracked, with big pieces of any stone that is going to be walked upon you would have to have a solid surface under them such as concrete or in the case as the piece you have inside a good wooden structure.

Pool tables come in 3 sizes, actual 4 if you count a "bumper pool table", but they are "bar" size 42" X 84", regulation size 48" X 96" , and a tournament table 54" X 108"

The "bar" size tables usually have a 1 piece slate bed, and all others usually have a 3 piece slate bed.

None that I have seen have a solid surface under them to support the slate. but instead have supports on all 4 sides and 3 or more cross supports.

As I mentioned pool table slate is not as fragile as most would think, it would be even less fragile in smaller pieces, as long as you don't drop the slate or have any amount of heavy weight applied to any pinpoint spot it would be unlikely to break very easily, it will however chip very easily if you hit any of the edges very hard.

Skip
[3 edits; Last edit by Au_Seeker at 22:52:38 Wed May 5 2010]

  
JOE_S_INDY
00:30:23 Thu
May 6 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Peluk,

A Snooker Table is (some level of memory is injected here) a little larget than a Pool Table. (much harder on the ego in England, a number of years ago, for a much younger USAF kid like me).

Just a thought ------

Joe



---
Wiser Mining Through Endless Personal Mistakes
 
 
Steppegold
03:44:20 Thu
May 6 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

HI Joe - about billard tables, here is summat a bit off-topic. Years ago, in Ince near Wigan, the houses were so smashed about by deep coal mining that many had literally fallen down, and the surviving homes were often leaning. Well I do recall houses so slanted there was a risk - even after only one pint of beer - of opening the front door, stumbling and rolling out of the back door into the yard beyond. That said, one large house had a large slate billiard table but it was so tricky to play on it that I could never do it. Sure the floor sloped like a ski jump and the billiard table kept level by railway sleepers jacking up the lower end, ,and the upper end had its peg legs trimmed. That's OK but think how difficult is was to play. At the downhill end the table was almost at eye level, whereas at the uphill end the table was near your boots.

Which brings us to the point... ....getting a slate sluice to have the right slope takes careful consideration, and not just the length-ways tilt but also the side-ways tilt.

Steppe

  
nuggets
07:19:27 Thu
May 6 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

This guy in the video makes cutting slate look easy :smile:!!

http://www.honister-slate-mine.co.uk/honister_green_roofing_slate.asp


they certainly have plenty of it !! If any one wants too pay the shipping costs that is :devil: !!!:gonetoofar:
[1 edits; Last edit by nuggets at 07:20:25 Thu May 6 2010]

  
peluk
09:35:10 Thu
May 6 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

That answers another question that always haunted me as a young man.As I worked at betterin' my game,it seemed like somone else was always futherin' the banks.

  
Muley
21:13:58 Thu
May 6 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Peluk, Joe, Tenderfootminer, Steppe and eveyone else looking for a cash and carry portable copy of a "Miller Table" check out the link at the end of this message.
First a little history, sometime back I was talking to "Nuggetbill" about the "Miller Table" and how it worked, So he set out and made this small version that you will see in the video.
What I found disturbing (Pissed me off) is that he never mentions the "Miller Table" and he never mentions our talk, He makes it sound like it was totally his idea and never even offered too sale me one at a discount or nothing.
Anyway enough of my whining.

enjoy the video and if anyone buy's one please post you thoughts on this great forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02mvPhVNGDE&playnext_from=TL&videos=ppEAUp3Dcb0

Gold luck to all,
Muley.
[1 edits; Last edit by Muley at 03:49:54 Fri May 7 2010]

  
Muley
21:29:04 Thu
May 6 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

One more thing, Check the bigger cities for a school supply store, They carry chalk boards of all sizes and dementions. There is one here in Bakersfield, Ca called "GW School supply" 661-323-2912 Their prices are very reasonable.
i bought some and put it in a GPAA clean up sluice, but was not too impressed with how it turned out, So it's back too the drawing board for me :smile:

Gold luck too you,
Muley

  
peluk
05:25:42 Fri
May 7 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Wow! I think I'd let Nugget Bill steal that idea.It's not quite ready for primetime.I'll take your word for the slate sluice being an iffy proposition.I don't know what was in the bottom of the one you directed us to.

That's quite a cluster of ideas in some of the other YouTube videos in that general list of flicks.Nugget Bill has a pretty handy blacksand separator.It's a vibrating,magnetized sluice which runs dry material.He reran the tails and he had gotten most of the magnetics at least.The downside is the material has to be dry.

Another man,"Granpa",was using Scotchbrite pads,shelfliner and things like that in his small cleanup sluice.These guys are not in areas of high gold content I don't think.One was on Florida beaches the other was working material from Montana with only ultra fine gold.That's good because they are extra diligent in design of their concentrators and cleanup devices.

Muley,did you ever set up the stacked sieving device you bought?It was a commercial make.I'm wondering how it worked.Again,it was only for dry material ...correct?

  
Muley
14:16:45 Fri
May 7 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Peluk,
The material that Nuggetbill is using in the bottom of his machine is green chalkboard. (Immatation slate) that is why the referrence to the school supply store.

As far as my experament with the "Humbolt Co" shaker it just didn't shake hard enough for me. I could hand shake faster than it would shake, one of these days I'm going to open it up and see if I can adjust it to hit harder, I don't give up easy. The shaker can be run either wet or dry.

I also purchased a shaker from "Nuggetbill" that he had built for his personal use, so it is a one- off item that worked better than the Humbolt Co machine. Bills machine runs on 12v and Humbolt is 110v. The 110v is designed to sit on top of 5 gal buckets and Bills has to be anchered down, Which is one reason his worked alot better, plus bills is varible speed. Downside to Bills is that it's screens are fixed and Humbolts takes the 8" round lab screens, So it will do what ever size you want to do.

Here is a link to Humbolt's page, I have the one at the bottom of the page (#4328)

http://www.humboldtmfg.com/c-7-p-441-id-7.html

Care should be taken when veiwing this site, I found it very easy to get carried away with the old Mastercard.:confused:

More later, I have to get back to work.

Gold luck to ya,
Muley
[1 edits; Last edit by Muley at 14:22:50 Fri May 7 2010]

  
peluk
19:31:46 Fri
May 7 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Ok Muley,I have to get this out of my head.It's a shaker screening idea which should work and I may put into use.
You'd build a framebase of timbers on edge about 3-4'square.It would be made of at least 2x 6 stock.They are joined at the corners.So,it looks like any small framed platform.Top that frame with plywood.Make another wood plate/ply sheet to sit on top of it.It would be the same dimension except for an extension to hold a small walk behind,plate compactor.That extension area would have a small lip around it to retain the compactor and keep it in place.

Around the perimeter of the bottom surface,you'd place valve springs and through bolt the two surfaces together...so there's a space between the top and bottom separated by springs.

On the top plate,place a tub of water such as a mortar tub.Suspend a screened container for your material into the water.It would rest on the fortified perimeter of the tub.Dump your material into the screened container/box/bin.Place your plate compactor in its confined area and crank it up.

It should give you a good shaking action which would also lift and bounce the material so it would not compress.The compactor action can be altered in intensity also.

There,now I can relax.I may have to go to this idea using window screen as a starter mesh .The key would be to spread out the material in the bin/screened container so it is not really even capable of packing.
The top bin could be hinged to expedite discard,and a container could sit in the bottom of the tub to catch the targeted size .

  
peluk
06:02:20 Sat
May 8 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Oh,the springs,holding the two flat surfaces apart,would be held in place by the bolts passing through the two face to face plywood surfaces and through the center hole in the individual springs .The bolts would pass through slightly oversized holes to allow a free bouncing movement.

  
Muley
06:44:45 Sat
May 8 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Peluk,
It's for me visualize without pictures or drawing's, but I think I get the ideal. Why the compactor? Why not a ajustable speed bin vibrator? Is it because you already have a compactor?
Wood is flexable and steel would be more durable and transmit the resonance from the compactor better resulting in not needing as much resonance. Also the choice of using window screen is inherently weak and may not be durable enough too last very long.
I have one double shaker that is about 14" square the top screen is 1/4" weave and the bottom one is 1/8"? weave. The eccentric is a rod anchored by 2 bearing's with a pulley on each end, the one pulley reciev's the power to turn it from a 3.5 hp briggs and the other pulley has a weight welded to it on one side causing it bounce the screens.
the screen section is suspended the same way as you plan to do your's.
I hope that this answer has helped. I could post some pictures next week if you would like to get a visual of this screen?

  
overtheedge
07:32:30 Sat
May 8 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Why not electric or propane powered hedge clippers? They already are designed for reciprocation.

  
grunt11b
12:06:38 Sat
May 8 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

I believe that I saw a Miller table over on another website that was made by using the rough side of black ABS sheeting.
I have some left over from a project and could post a picture if anyone thinks it would be worthwhile to consider.

  
peluk
20:40:55 Sat
May 8 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

I was afraid you say that Muley.I don't know how to post a sketch but imagine this.You've see a hand held woman's mirror.The squarish portion holds the glass and the extension handle comes off the side or bottom of the mirror.That extension portion is the platform that holds the compactor in the full size piece of equipment and that would be the top plate.The bottom plate would be the size of the mirror but without the handle extension.

1)Yes,I have a compactor sitting idle.
2)The extension on the upper plate,metal or wood,provides an added leverage and bouncing force that would be transmitted to the tub bottom...not just the screens.
3)That is why a reciprocal force would not be my choice Overtheedge.I can do that with a pan or a screen but the material is settling constantly.I want it to openup while settling.

In the upward pulsing water in a jig,the material is opened up and the heavies settle down through the screens.As a compromise here,the bouncing action transmitted to the tub rim lifts the material up with the screen,it opens up and then it settles down with the smallest and heaviest gouing down through the screens.....again and again.

4)I'm not sure what a bin vibrator is.I don't just want vibration however.I want shock and the law of inertia to come into play.That's why I think the compactor is ideal.
5)Window screen comes in nylon,copper and galvanized.Any of these are probably less expensive than stainless and readily available in larger sizes.I'd probably choose galvanized.i use galvanized hardware cloth in my highbankers and they never wear out it seems if treated properly.I'd be putting -1/8"cons in the bins generally,Heavier material like 1.5" minus would probaly require a 1/8"hardware cloth over the window screen cloth fro abrasion resistance.

  
peluk
20:48:04 Sat
May 8 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

Grunt,any picture is worth a thousand words.I'd like to see that you've got.I'm trying to visualize the rough side of an ABS sheet.

  
grunt11b
23:27:49 Sat
May 8 2010

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Re: Slate Cleanup Sluice

And here ya go...








  

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