New 49er     

:: :: darn loopholers
Lost Password :: Posting Pictures :: Who's Online :: Stats :: Memberlist :: Top Posters :: Search

Make a donation to our message forums through Paypal

Make a donation to our Legal Fund.



Welcome, Register :: Log In Welcome to our newest member, hubberjonas.

people online in the last 1 minutes - 0 members, 0 anon and 0 guests. (Most ever was 34 at 15:22:43 Fri Sep 10 2021)

Pages: [ 1 ]

[ Notify ][ Print ][ Send To Friend ] [ Watch ] [ < ] [ > ]

54 posts
darn loopholers ( 19:58:48 TueMar 25 2014 )

From DFG dredge restriction page, Jim

112 posts
Re: darn loopholers ( 23:03:16 TueMar 25 2014 )

““In addition, current low flow conditions in streams throughout California would exacerbate the adverse effects of suction dredge mining activities absent an extension of the existing emergency regulations. The year 2013 closed as the driest calendar year on record for the state.”” (CDFW)

Well, there you have it, folks…..the green gospel. Too bad that it is exactly opposite the truth, but what do we care about the truth anyway? Right? Truth is, small scale dredgers are the best (and only) friend that these fish have got!

As the summer wears on and water levels drop, several bad things happen. Many of the shallow pools that fish seek out to provide safety from predation, and thermal refuge….disappear. Another bad thing happens. Streamside structure (roots, irregularities. caves, and plants) that juvenile fish hide in…. is now out of reach. There is less wetted area in which to find invertebrates (juvenile fish’s natural diet). And, it’s not over yet! Much of the prime, shallow spawning beds are now high and dry. And, the longer the drought lasts….the worse things are going to get!

Sadly, there is something that can be done to help these fish, but political agenda and uninformed radical environmentalism is preventing it. For decades, small scale dredgers have provided cool, calm pools (defined by biologists as “refugia”) in which fish can rest, regain their strength, and escape predation. Dredgers suspend invertebrates in the water which fish eagerly feed on. Dredgers provide cobble “structure” piles in which small fish hide. And, dredgers provide washed gravel beds in which spawning fish can lay and bury their eggs.

It’s almost unimaginable how this world can get turned so upside down. The dredgers do so much to help the fish, and the uninformed environmentalists do so much to prevent it. SAD!

54 posts
Re: darn loopholers ( 00:23:34 WedMar 26 2014 )

A reg- good reply, you nailed it. Thanks, Jim

Re: darn loopholers ( 00:36:31 FriApr 4 2014 )

Miners have been preaching this for years. Unfortunately we preached mostly to ourselves. Years ago, we should have shown our concern for fish and educated the public and environmental groups. Rather than do that, we took an absolute stance and aligned ourselves with big mining operations that actually do kill fish and destroy habitat.

315 posts
Me &amp; Tank Klamath 200
Re: darn loopholers ( 23:28:06 MonApr 14 2014 )

From the above linked CDFW document...

"On April 1, 2014, the Department will hold a public hearing to receive public input on the regular rulemaking."

Was there a meeting and an open public comment period?


1928 posts

Re: darn loopholers ( 04:14:48 TueApr 15 2014 )

Salty Dog,

I hope you will forgive my being blunt and borderline angry in my reply to you.

I have never replied to a post from a fellow miner in the manner that I do in this reply, and I hope to never have to do it again.

The only thing you said that I agree with is when you said. "Miners have been preaching this for years."

I consider your post an affront to all those that have worked so hard on the front lines of this battle for the last sixteen years. I am one of those front liners. I and many others have worked tirelessly, spent our own money and time and travelled all over the northwest fighting for miners rights at every opportunity.

We did not preach to ourselves or miners, but diligently sought to preach the truth of what we do to agency as well as legislators and environmentalist groups. Take some time and pull up the audio records or written testimoney that the various agencies have published. They are readily available on the net at the agency websites.

In those testimonies you will hear environmental lies refuted, agency rule making shot down, and disinformation publically and effectively argued against. Mining advocates like myself have successfully argued before legislators and agency staff showing their hypocrisy and ignorance of law and mining. We argued effectively to the point that our adversaries could no longer answer our arguments.

You show a bit of ingnorance yourself in asserting that the issue is about fish. The issue has never been about fish, that is just a smoke screen. It has always been about power and money, which is true of both agency people as well as environmentalists.

There are those of us that have educated the public in town meetings, before county supervisors, legislators and even in schools.

We (suction dredge miners) have never aligned ourselves with big mining. We fought our own battles and big mining refused to help in any way.

Incidently, big mining does not kill fish either, if anything they have more stringent rules that we do. It takes years of paperwork, permitting and compliance to bring mine online.

You need to get your facts straight before maligning those on the front lines. We miners need solidarity and the grit to band together effectively rather than take part in armchair finger pointing from the sidelines.

Our club motto is "Miners helping miners". We like it that way.

James Foley
Property and Mining Rights Advocate
Horse Creek, California
462 posts
Re: darn loopholers ( 04:50:45 TueApr 15 2014 )

Jim thanks for saying what I would have never said... in a way I would never have...... I would not have been so polite

[1 edits; Last edit by ratled at 04:51:08 Tue Apr 15 2014]

125 posts

Re: darn loopholers ( 09:52:57 TueApr 15 2014 )

Yes Jim, that is exactly the way it is and has been.

Even if 'Salty" didn't mean harm in his personal views he certainly was inaccurate to the point of disinformation.

I'm pleased that you pointed out the incredible efforts that many, many miners (and others) have invested in maintaining a strong defense against the encroachment of all our land rights. In fact, That strong defense has turned into a resolute offense against those special interest groups seeking power and money for themselves.

And yes, Rattled, I held back on my vocabulary as well.


[1 edits; Last edit by JOE_S_INDY at 20:21:37 Tue Apr 15 2014]

Wiser Mining Through Endless Personal Mistakes
10 posts

Re: darn loopholers ( 23:21:28 ThuApr 17 2014 )

Thank you Jim for being so diplomatic with your response to Salty Dogs post. He hasn't evidently been to the meetings, presented information to legislators and FED officials that you and a lot of others have been involved with. Otherwise he wouldn't have posted what he did. Thanks again.......


Pages: [ 1 ]

[ Notify ][ Print ][ Send To Friend ] [ Watch ] [ < ] [ > ]

 Total Members: 4903

  • Can't start a new thread. (Admins Only)
  • Can't start a new poll. (Admins Only)
  • Can't add a reply. (Admins Only)
  • Can't edit your posts.(Everyone Registered)
  • Register :: Log In :: Administrators

    The time is 21:17:48 Mon Jun 27 2022

    Powered By BbBoard V1.4.2
    © 2001-2007
    [Most Recent Quotes from]

    [Most Recent Quotes from]