Nov 12 2011
Boo is older now, I love him to death never loved a dog like this before lol and he's a wonderful boy but we have been having some problems for a while now and just when I think he might be improving, he has a disaster.
The toilet training is terrible. In the first week I had him at 8 weeks old he had a virus that he probably caught from the farm he was born at which caused him to diarrhea everywhere for a fortnight we of course fixed that at the vets although it was a very messy stressful start. We crate him at night so he learns to hold it through the night, originally it was horrendous, screaming for hours, but we learnt by having him in a different room he would just learn that screaming gets nowhere and he is now improving ( he still doesn't like the cage though).
So the house training. It's not going well, he makes mistakes all the time, I am constantly doing positive reinforcement ( a treat and the sign for good boy) everytime he goes outside, but its getting silly now, the door will be open and he will run inside and wee, really frustrating. Ive started really telling him off when he does ( grabbing his scruff and giving him the no signal, which by now he DEFINITELY knows) he goes out every hour, and gets two long walks a day as I have a very active lifestyle and the door is ALWAYS open so I don't understand. He runs up the stairs to poo and now we know this we look out for him going for the stairs and are considering getting a stair gate. I'm starting to lose my cool.
Then there is the other problem. He is a very happy puppy loves people so much, always has to be asleep on someone, and he lives with 2 other dogs, my mothers pomeranian and an ancient spaniel. Boo loves the spaniel but she is very old and doesn't bother with him, and Boo and Louis the pom are best friends always playing but now its starting to get serious, they had a fight a week ago over a toy but Boo is much bigger than Louis already and its getting vicious, Boo tried to take a toy off Louis today and before I knew it he bowled Louis over and was fighting him like I have never seen a dog fight before, Boo really hurt Louis leg to the point he is limping and if it isn't settled by tomorrow he will be going to the vets. The strange thing is Boo and Louis get on fine most the time just these fights occur and they are nasty. Do you think there is any chance the vet will neuter him early? He is now 4 1/2 weeks old I realise they like them to be 6 months but he is too boisterous, he bounds over to strange dogs, they growl and he doesn't hear it and next thing I know my puppy is in a full on fight.
Sorry about how long this post is lol, just very stressed out atm, he is truly a lovely dog, no aggression whatsoever towards humans or other dogs really, just he is too overconfident, so if they tell him to back off, he doesn't. I am trying to keep him away eg. on a walk keep him close and on a short lead but I can't do that in my own home.
Anywho, if anyone has any advice ( although please nothing on the lines of "OMG your dog is evil put it down") I would be so grateful, theres a picture on the bottom of this thread but I'll be sure to put more up when I figure out a better way
Nov 12 2011
Nov 13 2011
Now take a step back here, you have a 18 WEEKS old puppy & you seriously expect him to be house trained? Some are, yes however many many more are not. Somewhere along the way he has got confused, so you need to back step and start all over, the fault is not his, it is yours.
I don't mean to be harsh here but you really are expecting far too much, far too soon.
Please, please don't grab your puppy the way you describe you are doing, you will make the situation much worse and he may well become hand shy and/or fearful, neither of which you want. Go back to the beginning and take baby steps.
Just because the door to the outside is always open does not mean he understands he is meant to go outside to do his biz. YOU need to go outside with him every couple of hours and when he "goes" you make the biggest fuss of him you can. If he does not do anything you come back in with him.
If I have a puppy house trained by the time it is 6 months old, I think I have done well. Many take much longer.
Boxers are a breed that are very very slow developers. Your boy won't be fully mature until he is 3-4 YEARS old. You need to back off on this little puppy and realise he is very very young and just cannot comprehend what you expect of him
It is very rare for a young puppy to be "vicious", they don't know the meaning of the word, he is a big puppy compared to a toy breed and possibly it was just very rough play that got out of hand and being so much bigger & heavier, it would be easy for the little one to get hurt.
If toys have become an issue, you remove "all" the toys. The only time that toys are available is when there is a person in the same room to supervise and immediately the situation gets tense or looks like one dog favours a toy too much you step in immediately & remove the toy, same with food treats, bones, food etc.
It mightn't be a bad idea to take your puppy for a health check at your vets just to rule out a UTI (bladder infection) which are common (and very uncomfortable) in puppies. While there ask him/her if they know of any "young" puppy socialisation classes. Sometimes vets run their own.
Here in the UK the norm for neutering is 6 months.
Nov 13 2011
I grab my puppy by the scruff just as his mother would and it is a recommended by the majority of dog trainers including the several books I have acquired about deaf dogs and general training. I don't see why he would become hand shy, I am not smacking him or hurting him.
I am not saying I expect him to be trained at all by his age, my partners working lab took nearly 2 years to house train, I am panicking over the lack of improvement however since the day we have had him.
When I say he goes out every hour I mean he goes out with me, on a lead. But the door is also always open the rest of the time.
As for the aggression, I am not exaggerating, it is a serious problem one minute they are fine the next minute he makes a noise I can only describe as monstrous and full on leaps on the pom, its like a whirlwind biting each others necks, I have seen my fair share of dog fights, I have grown up in a very dog orientated family, and this is a proper dog fight. I run over and literally have to haul him off, I honestly think if I kicked him he would just carry on. We will be moving back out in January so its not the end of the world, but he is showing signs of it with strange dogs as well, dogs MUCH bigger than him.
I realise that this is not just the puppy's fault I was asking for advice, the puppy is in no way being punished for any of this, I am simply describing the situation. I realise he is nothing like the toy breeds, he lives with one but my dad being a police dog handler, I have had experience with many different dogs, and Boo has been socialised with a lot from Jack Russels to a Saint Bernard from the farm, my fathers current German Shepard police dog and my horses. I also understand that boxers are slow developing, so my post was for reassurance mainly that I am not the first to experience this and that this is in fact all normal.
In all seriousness, I am not just talking about a few little mishaps, I am talking about minimum of 8 mistakes a day, so I am just pleading for advice not criticism. He has racked up about 300 pounds of vets bills so far with his infection as a puppy, vaccs, microchipping and routine check up, now I hve insurance if this urination problem carries on I will take him back to the vets over it. They have said they can perform the neutering early but there has to be a specific reason why and aggression is one of them so bringing it up in the post I am curious as to whether anyone on the board thinks that I should neuter early over the aggression or whether I should leave it an extra month.
I love my puppy very much and enjoying every second of him, but I thought my post would be welcomed as I am having major concerns,I wasn't expecting to be told off for it.
On another note, Walter is BEAUTIFUL such funny photographs he looks like he fits right into your family, great name aswell!
Nov 13 2011
Boxers as a breed can be very full on & make a lot of noise when playing. Sometimes it can sound as if there is a full scale fight going on. For the safety of the little dog i would suggest you keep them separately at all times unless someone is there to supervise.
If you have a deaf boxer and would like any help and advice, please feel free to ask as many questions as you like on this forum.
The above page on our website may be useful to you, it was provided by Gingerboy on here who has his own white, deaf Boxer
Nov 13 2011
Grabbing the scruff of his neck could well make him handshy, this is quite an outdated method of control from what I understand. I have never punished any of my dogs at all and my last boxer wasn't house trained until she was about two.
As Helen said, going out with your boy and praising him when he does something outside, is far more effective than praising him/or punishing him when he comes in the door. Dogs have immediate association, so they associate the treat/punishment for coming in, not for the deed they have just done in the garden.
You are going to probably be a bit cross with me here, but I HATE crates with a passion, they teach a dog nothing and I have seen far too many crate injuries, especially in such a boisterous breed as boxers. Is he only crated overnight or is he in it during the day?
I don't know if I missed the information or not, but I was wondering if the other dog he has been "fighting" with is neutered or not? It could be that as an older dog, he may be putting out "king of the hill" vibes and Boo is picking up on them. Boo will be learning ALOT through body language etc, as he wont hear warning growls. This could be why he is making more noise when he is fighting etc.
As Helen said, taking toys of them and discouraging any kind of competitive play and letting them learn to play together is a good idea. Also watching them carefully around food. Boo is deaf, so he is going to be relying a lot on his instincts, which at 18 weeks, may be a little off.
You can get him neutered by six months old, although some vets may do it sooner.
Hope some of that helps, boxers are boisterous by nature and hard work to train at the best of times, a deaf boxer is doubly so.
Nov 13 2011
Some can be sensitive to puppy some puppy foods and I was wondering what food he was on?
I have to say, I could never go through the puppy stage again, I found it completely exhausting, so I totally get where you are coming from. Nothing is meant as criticism and I don't think Helen's was either, sorry
Nov 13 2011
Boo had severe campylobacteriosis which was causing his stomach lining to bleed so he was not only diarreah-ing everywhere but it was a bloody mucas mess, he wouldn't put weight on and was vomiting. When we first had him he had diarreah but we were assured it was probably the stress of being moved and his food did change (I personally don't like bakers dog food) and so we just monitored for a few days but then the blood and the vomitting came. When we initially took him to the vets she came to a quick conclusion of worms, gave me a wormer and a paste to stop him pooing and sent us on our way. Another week passed and he had lost a pound, which is ridiculous for a growing puppy of 10 weeks. SO we saw a different vet and he of course diagnosed campylo and mended him he was on prescription diet which was hugely expensive but so worth it. He is now on burns mini bites, all our dogs are on low fat brands (the pom has terribly dodgy stomach and diarreah and a fluffy coat do NOT work well). So he is a nice healthy growing boy now, going to be huge apparently.
The crating came in after he was cured of his infection, he only ever gets crated at ten at night and then he wakes me 7am on the dott every morning with a whimper, and he never gets crated in the day hes got far too much to be doing! I was hugely anti-crate before, however it has taught him to hold it in the night which I think was important, I would wake in the morning to find the mother of all messes. I think the fact he holds it in the night suggests that he hasn't got a uti of some sort. If he was wetting his crate I would definitely be concerned. I'd personally love to have him up in bed lol I'm sure once he's house trained the crate will be dismissed!
Boo is very noisy which I am guessing is cause he is deaf which we find very cute he makes some charming noises but the aggression is an issue, its not just playing, he does indeed play and with Louis on occasion but then there are times when he literally attacks him. It is near impossible to keep them seperated at all times but I have taken toys away unless I am involved as he did it again today. The pom is neutered, albeit he is defensive when Boo starts but he is not trying to dominate Boo. He demonstrated similar behaviour with a female schnauzer today so I think I will be either neutering early or keeping him in line. I really don't want to have to muzzle him, especially seeing as he is such a sweetie the majority of the time, he really does adore people, and it really doesn't help the public imagery of deaf dogs, as so many people have "warned me" deaf dogs are aggressive. But he has NEVER shown any signs towards me, I can put my hand in his food, take a treat or toy off him etc, it's purely a territorial/boy thing.
I would just like to say aswell that everytime I go out with him, he is praised on the spot when he makes outside and not when he comes in. I am wondering whether I should maybe start using an indoor and outdoor hand signal or whether I should just relax.
Thank you so much for your help I don't mean to come across like I am blaming my dog or anything along those lines, just I get terribly wound up when one minute he has diddled on the floor and the next minute he is bounding through the puddle I am cleaning up, only to start a fight with Louis which involves tearing his hair out in clumps as I shout "Booo!" in terror which of course, he can't hear. Then I have one bald pom and a not so white boxer in need of a bath.
Nov 13 2011
I was telling my hubby about boo and your problems, and he reminded me of the collar we got from our trainer. they cost around 90 dollars retail in the states, but if u find a trainer they can get them wholesale for around 60. but it is a shock collar. we used it specifically if we were outside, and we used it fr a while >till the batteries died!< trying to house train her....the problem with deaf dogs is unless they can see you, and u have direct eye contact hand signals wont work. so while outside wed put the collar on her, and if she for somereason got loose wed give a push to the button and she knew to come back. it wasnt anything big, jsut a small lil shock. but definately worth getting one.
I agree too on the toys,.,,remove them all. and just remember hes a puppy, and puppys r not vicious unless they are taught to be, and i know u r not teaching him to be that way. he is deaf, so sometimes u just have to go about things a bit different.
relax n enjoy your puppy, he wont be a puppy forever and then ull have a 60 lb lap dog!
Nov 14 2011
If you want to follow that route there are alternatives that don't hurt the dog such as citronella sprays attached to the collar, it "puffs" up a citronella scent which on a temporary basis anyway startles the dog.
Problem being that dogs are not stupid, they will learn that they are only hurt or surprised when wearing a collar
Causing a vibration by stamping on the floor to get your pups attention is worth a try. On another forum I go to there is a lady with 5 deaf rescue dogs, I will contact her and see If she will nip across here to give you help and advice. She never rescues a hearing dog, only deaf ones - a true animal angel
Nov 14 2011
Nov 14 2011
I use clicker training and purely positive reinforcement. Corrections are detrimental for deaf dogs, why would a dog want to look at you and pay constant attention to you if he get's corrected?
You can use a vibrating collar, NOT a shock collar, with a deaf dog, those can be useful for getting attention and effective for training recall and attention... it's not a correction, it's a signal.
My first deaf dog, Scout, a terrier mix rescued at 4 years old, knows over 50 hand signals. She does tons of tricks and her obedience is amazing, I could compete with her in Rally-o if there was a club here that accepted mutts... She's brilliant. My 2 little deaf dachshunds are really good too. Mouse knows 25 or so signs, and Boo has around 10. Training deaf dogs is easier, imo, as they have less distractions.
Boo (my Boo LOL) was adopted at 6.5 years old with horrible resource guarding. He would attack anyone who went near his food, as well as guarding laps, couches, and people who are holding him. It only took 4 weeks before I could put my hand in his dish, I hand fed him, and made him work for every piece of food he got (sit, down, nose targets, etc, eventually working up to more complicated tricks) I still often put a liver treat in his dish while he's eating, so he stays comfortable with hands near his food. And I NEVER, EVER take anything away from him.
I use an LED click light for a clicker, and found it to be extremely effective for the dogs, though I only train with it for tricks and such and in only low light.
Now, I realize my dogs are not Boxers, but I've trained boxers, and helped many others with their deaf Boxers.
Personally, I'd keep him leashed to you at all times, in his crate if you cant watch him. Keep most of his meals in your pocket, feeding what you didn't use throughout the day in his crate, to make the crate a happier place. give him food for lookign at you, for sit ting, for laying down, for potty outside, for walking with you nicely, and for being calm.
I spotted something in your op that I wanted to clarify:
Boo doesn't "know" going to the bathroom inside is bad... what he "knows" is that doing it in your presence is sometimes bad, so he runs to another room, or upstairs to hide it. Your being very inconsistant, sometimes praising, sometimes punishing, he really has no idea what you want.
So here's what you should be doing. Keep him on a leash at all times, take him out every 1/2 hour, after eating, sleeping, and playing. Throw a party when he does something outside... major praise, a handful of food (remember you are keeping his meals in your pocket) lots of body rubs, a thrown toy, whatever, just make it seriously excitable. |For now, if you dont take him out in time and he has an accident, completely ignore it, let him out, then go clean it up without him. Dont get mad at Boo, It isn't his fault you didn't get him outside in time. Go get him, put back on his leash and keep working on it. Always throw a party for outside business, totally ignore inside business, and he's going to quit doing inside business as he wants the party from outside business
as to the aggression, figure out what is triggering these fights, and take away the triggers, it's quite simple, especially with puppy aggression.
Here's a philosophy of mine:
If you always set up a dog to succeed, he will never fail, if you set up a dog to fail, he will fail, and he will get really good at failing, as he gets to practice it over and over again.
Deaf dogs are awesome and seriously rewarding. They are not more aggressive, and they are not more difficult, infact, it's been my experience that they're easier than hearing dogs. They tend to be velcro dogs, always with you, they dont like being alone. utilize that, and you'll have a great dog!
Nov 14 2011
We have only had mistakes in the living room today, it's the only place he is allowed to be loose now, he's not trying to hide it he just goes where he wants, literally minutes after coming in from a walk. Infuriating but never mind. It's without a doubt a boy thing, he tried to jump Louis today and that all ended in a ruckus and Louis limping again. The aggression is leading from his balls that's what, so its not something I can avoid ie. food aggression, toys.
I like the Velcro dog comment, I have found him to be more loyal than any other dog I've owned, completely devoted to me, which is wonderful, and when out on a walk today I let him off the lead in one of my fields, and found he stayed as close as he could and didn't really fancy running off which was refreshing. Must say though, he's the most lovely clumsy, leggy little beast I've ever seen.
Nov 16 2011
Nov 17 2011
Unless a dog is in a position where a shock collar is actually going to save it's life with use, then they should not be used, and even then, I would question them.
Have you ever touched an electric fence? It hurts.
Sorry, but they are banned in this country and for good reason
Nov 17 2011
A vibrating collar should be used as an attention getter only. Start by standing really close, buzz then treat immediately, do this 5 or so times, then back up a few steps, buzz, treat when the dog comes to you, do this 5 or so times then back up a little further. Continue increasing the distance, giving lots of treats and praise when he comes. After he has solid recall on distances (different rooms etc) Then increase distraction, go out into the yard. Put a long line on him, once he's got a solid recall in the yard, and take him into the front yard, then a park, then finally a dog park. Every time you increase distraction, you need to go back to the beginning, to help him understand what you want. work the distance back up. If at any time he doesn't recall to you, don't correct him, just ignore the bad recall, go get him, and lower criteria again until he's more solid.
Nov 23 2011
Thank you all for your help I've found it very comforting!
Sashas mum do you live in Wales? Just curious as I'm pretty sure shock collars are still legal in England, Scotland and Ireland. I'm welsh so not bothered just thought I'd point out that Britain is not shock free.
Nov 26 2011
I thought all our Governments had ruled them out, thank you for pointing that out!
Nov 27 2011
Nov 27 2011